Guidelines for the cards of Dreadnought Rising units

NeuralDream · Guidelines for the cards of Dreadnought Rising units

These are not definite, but as a start:

monetary cost
See the Costs sticky for exchange rates in 1914.

Month of availability: Enter here the month it was commissioned (such as Sep. 1942)

The time scale is 10 mins / turn.
The distance scale is 3,200 yards / turn.

Speeds ( Version 1.1 ) ( New speed chart )

< 10kts= Cripples Speed 0 *** ( See Cripple Rule )

11-14kts= Monitors Speed 1
Trawlers and Subs

15-18kts= Pre-Dreadnoughts Speed 1 SA All Ahead Full
Coastal Def. Vessels

19-22kts= Dreadnoughts Speed 2
Slow Cruisers

23-26kts= Fst Dn's and Slw Bc's Speed 2 SA All Ahead Full
Fst Cruisers

27-30kts= Battlecruisers Speed 3
Scout Cruisers
Slow Destroyers

31kts + = Other fast craft Speed 4

Explanations......

All Ahead Full : If this unit makes no course deviations ( turns ) during it's movement step, this unit gains + 1 speed

Cripple Rule : ( This replaces WaS rule ) all crippled ships assume speed 0. A ship traveling speed 0 can either temporarily gain "All Ahead Full" and move 1 sector straight ahead, or, it may remain in the sector without moving, but may change it's facing. ( Crippled ships are struggling just to stay afloat, maneuvering is pretty much out of the question )

Hull points (for ships)
ss, dd, tb : 1-2 hull points
cl up to 4000 tns : 2 hull points
cl over 4000 tns : 3 hull points
pc, ac up to 14000 tns : 3 hull points
pc, ac over 14000 tns : 4 hull points
pdn up to 14000 tns : 3 hull points
pdn from 14001 to 20000 tns : 4 hull points
pdn over 20000 tns : 5 hull points
dn and bc up to 20000 tns : 4 hull points
dn, bc from 20001 to 25000 : 5 hull points
dn, bc 25001 on up : 6 hull points
Hull points (for submarines)
surface standard displacement <700 : 1 hull point
surface standard displacement >700 : 2 hull points

Gunnery
range 0: 1,600 yards
range 1: 4,800 yards
range 2: 8,000 yards
range 3: 11,200 yards
Extended Range 4: 14,400 yards
Extended Range 5: 17,600 yards

Base Fire Values

Basic Gun Values for Central Powers BB/BC/B/AC/PC/CL/TB Version 2.1

RANGE    0    1 2 3

1 x 3.45 1    1 1 - no DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT
2 x 3.45 1    1 1 - no DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT
3-4 x 3.45 2    1 1 - Def Arm 5
5-6 x 3.45 3 2 1 - Def Arm 5
7-8 x 3.45 4 3 2 - Def Arm 4
9-10 x 3.45 5 4 3 - Def Arm 4
11+ x 3.45 6 5 4 - Def Arm 3

1 x 4.1" 1 1    1
2 x 4.1" 2 1    1
3-4 x 4.1" 3 2 1
5-6 x 4.1" 4 3    2
7-8 x 4.1" 5 4    3
9-10 x 4.1" 6 5    4
11+ x 4.1" 7 6    5

1 x 4.7" 2 1    1
2 x 4.7" 3 2    1
3-4 x 4.7" 4 3    2
5-6 x 4.7" 5 4    3
7-8 x 4.7" 6 5    4
9-10 x 4.7" 7 6    5
11+ x 4.7" 8 7    6

1 x 5.9" 3 2 1 1
2 x 5.9" 4 3 2   1
3-4 x 5.9" 5 4 3 1
5-6 x 5.9" 6 5 4 2
7-8 x 5.9" 7 6 5 3
9-10 x 5.9" 8 7 6 4
11+ x 5.9" 9 8 7   5

1 x 6.7" 4 3    2   1
2 x 6.7" 5 4    3    1
3-4 x 6.7" 6 5    4    2
5-6 x 6.7" 7 6    5    3
7-8 x 6.7" 8 7    6    4
9-10 x 6.7" 9 8    7    5
11+ x 6.7"    10 9    8 6

1 x 8.2/40 6 5    4 2
2 x 8.2/40 7 6    5 3
3-4 x 8.2/40    8 7    6 4
5-6 x 8.2/40 9 8    7 5
7-8 x 8.2/40   10 9 8 6
9-10 x 8.2/40 11 10 9 7
11+ x 8.2/40 12 11 10 8

1 x 9.4/40 7 6 5 3
2 x 9.4/40 8 7 6 4
3-4 x 9.4/40 9 8 7 5
5-6 x 9.4/40 10 9 8    6
7-8 x 9.4/40 11 10 9 7
9-10 x 9.4/40 12 11 10 8
11+ x 9.4/40 13 12 11 9

1 x 11/35 8 7 6 4
2 x 11/35 9 8 7 5
3-4 x 11/35    10 9    8       6
5-6 x 11/35 11 10    9   7
7-8 x 11/35 12 11    10 8
9-10 x 11/35 13 12    11    9
11+ x 11/35 14 13    12 10

1 x 11/45 9 8 7    5
or 11/40
2 x 11/45   10 9 8 6
or 11/40
3-4 x 11/45 11 10 9 7
or 11/40
5-6 x 11/45 12 11 10 8
or 11/40
7-8 x 11/45 13 12 11   9
or 11/40
9-10 x 11/45    14 13 12 10
or 11/40
11+ x 11/45 15 14 13 11
or 11/40

1 x 11/50 10 9 8 6
2 x 11/50 11 10 9 7
3-4 x 11/50 12 11 10 8
5-6 x 11/50 13 12 11 9
7-8 x 11/50 14 13 12 10
9-10 x 11/50 15 14 13 11
11+ x 11/50 16 15 14 12

1 x 12/50 11 10 9 7
2 x 12/50 12 11 10    8
3-4 x 12/50 13 12 11 9
5-6 x 12/50 14 13 12    10
7-8 x 12/50 15 14 13    11
9-10 x 12/50 16 15 14 12
11+ x 12/50 17 16 15 13

1 x 15/45 12 11 10 8
2 x 15/45 13 12 11 9
3-4 x 15/45 14 13 12 10
5-6 x 15/45 15 14 13 11
7-8 x 15/45 16 15 14 12
9-10 x 15/45 17 16 15 13
11+ x 15/45 18 17 16 14

Basic Gun Values for Triple Entente BB/BC/B/AC/PC/CL/DD

RANGE 0 1 2 3

1 x 12 lb 1 1 = NO DEF ARM
or 3"
2 x 12 lb 1 1 = NO DEF ARM
or 3"
3-4 x 12 lb 2 1 = DEF ARM 5
or 3"
5-6 x 12 lb 3 2 = DEF ARM 5
or 3"
7-8 x 12 lb 4 3 = DEF ARM 4
or 3"
9-10 x 12 lb 5 4 = DEF ARM 4
or 3"
11+ x 12 lb 5 5 = DEF ARM 3
or 3"

1 x 4" 1 1 1
2 x 4" 2 1 1
3-4 x 4" 3 2 1
5-6 x 4" 4 3 2
7-8 x 4" 5 4 3
9-10 x 4" 6 5 4
11+ x 4" 7 6 5

1 x 5.4 (FR)   2 1 1
2 x 5,4 (FR)   3 2 1
3-4 x 5.4 (FR)   4 3 2
5-6 x 5.4 (FR)   5 4 3
7-8 x 5.4 (FR)   6 5 4
9-10 x 5.4 (FR)   7 6 5
11+ x 5.4 (FR)   8 7 6

1 x 6" 3 2    1    1
2 x 6" 4 3   2    1
3-4 x 6" 5 4   3    1
5-6 x 6" 6 5   4    2
7-8 x 6" 7 6    5    3
9-10 x 6" 8 7 6    4
11+ x 6" 9 8 7      5

1 x 6.5 (FR)   4 3 2 1
2 x 6.5 (FR) 5 4 3 1
3-4 x 6.5 (FR) 6   5 4 2
5-6 x 6.5 (FR) 7 6 5 3
7-8 x 6.5 (FR) 8 7 6 4
9-10 x 6.5 (FR) 9 8 7 5
11+ x 6.5 (FR) 10 9 8 6

1 x 7/45 (US) 5 4 3 1
2 x 7/45 (US) 6 5 4 2
3-4 x 7/45 (US) 7 6 5 3
5-6 x 7/45 (US) 8 7 6 4
7-8 x 7/45 (US) 9 8 7 5
9-10 x 7/45 (US) 10 9 8 6
11+ x 7/45 (US) 11 10 9 7

1 x 7.5    6 5 4 2
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
2 x 7.5 7 6 5 3
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
3-4 x 7.5    8 7 6 4
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
5-6 x 7.5    9 8 7 5
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
7-8 x 7.5   10 9 8 6
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
9-10 x 7.5   11 10   9 7
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)
11+ x 7.5 12 11 10 8
or 7.6 (FR)
or 8 (IT)

1 x 9.2 7 6 5 3
or 10/40
2 x 9.2 8 7 6 4
or 10/40
3-4 x 9.2 9 8 7 5
or 10/40
5-6 x 9.2 10 9 8 6
or 10/40
7-8 x 9.2 11 10 9    7
or 10/40
9-10 x 9.2 12 11 10 8
or 10/40
11+ x 9.2 13 12 11   9
or 10/40

1 x 12/35 8 7   6 4
or 12/40
2 x 12/35 9 8    7      5
or 12/40
3-4 x 12/35   10 9 8   6
or 12/40
5-6 x 12/35 11 10 9 7
or 12/40
7-8 x 12/35 12 11 10 8
or 12/40
9-10 x 12/35 13 12    11    9
or 12/40
11+ x 12/35 14 13    12 10
or 12/40

1 x 12/45   9 8 7 5
2 x 12/45 10 9 8 6
3-4 x 12/45 11 10 9 7
5-6 x 12/45 12 11 10 8
7-8 x 12/45 13 12 11 9
9-10 x 12/45    14 13 12 10
11+ x 12/45 15 14 13 11

1 x 12/50 10 9 8    6
or 13.5/30
2 x 12/50    11 10   9 7
or 13.5/30
3-4 x 12/50 12 11 10   8
or 13.5/30
5-6 x 12/50 13 12 11 9
or 13.5/30
7-8 x 12/50    14 13 12 10
or 13.5/30
9-10 x 12/50 15 14 13 11
or 13.5/30
11+ x 12/50 16 15 14 12
or 13.5/30

1 x 13.5/45 11 10 9 7
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
2 x 13.5/45 12 11 10 8
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
3-4 x 13.5/45 13 12 11 9
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
5-6 x 13.5/45 14 13 12 10
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
7-8 x 13.5/45 15 14 13 11
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
9-10 x 13.5/45 16 15 14 12
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
11+ x 13.5/45 17 n 16 15 13
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45

1 x 15/45 12 11 10 8
2 x 15/45 13 12 11 9
3-4 x 15/45 14 13 12 10
5-6 x 15/45 15 14 13 11
7-8 x 15/45 16 15 14 12
9-10 x 15/45 17 16 15 13
11+ x 15/45 18 17 16 14

You just count the guns that can fire in a particular FOF and then count the range, this is your base dice thrown in that particular FOF.

Torpedoes
The suggested values below refer to the number
of torpedo tubes that can be used in a direction.

For Battleships and armoured cruisers
1 TT -> 1/-/-/-
2 TT -> 1/-/-/-
3 TT -> 1/-/-/-
4 TT -> 1/-/-/-
5 TT -> 2/-/-/-
6 TT -> 2/-/-/-
For Light cruisers
1 TT -> 1/-/-/-
2 TT -> 1/1/-/-
3 TT -> 1/1/-/-
4 TT -> 2/1/-/-
5 TT -> 2/2/-/-
6 TT -> 2/2/-/-
For Destroyers and Torpedo Boats
1 TT -> 1/-/-/-
2 TT -> 1/1/-/-
3 TT -> 2/1/-/-
4 TT -> 2/2/-/-
5 TT -> 3/2/-/-
6 TT -> 3/2/-/-
For Submarines (plus examples)
1 TT -> 1/1/-/- U 1
2 TT -> 2/1/-/- U 151
3 TT -> 2/2/-/- UC 16
4 TT -> 3/3/-/- U 23
5 TT -> 4/3/-/- U 66
6 TT -> 4/4/-/- U 139

Vital Armor for Dreadnoughts and Battlecruisers
Armor + Hull

Vital Armor for Pre-Dreadniughts and Auxillaries
Armor + Hull + 1

Vital Armor for Armored Cruisers and Protected Cruisers
Armor + Hull + 2

Vital Armor for Scout Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Destroyers and Small Craft
Armor + Hull + 3

Vital Armor can be modified + or - by mitigating factors such as
superior/inferior construction
superior/inferior sea worthiness
deck armor greater than 3"
superior/inferior damage control

These modifiers should be used sparingly

Armour
belt 1"=1
2"=2
3"=3
4"=4
5"=5
6-7"=6
8-9"=7
10-12"=8
13-14"=9
15"+=10

Aircraft and airships
One single-engine card/miniature represents 3 aircraft.
One airship cards/miniature represents 1 airship.

Speed 4: 70 km/h
Speed 5: 90 km/h
Speed 6: 105 km/h
Speed 7: 123 km/h
Speed 8: 140 km/h
Speed 9: 158 km/h
Speed 10: 180km/h
...

Subject to debate all these, but I thought I should write something down so that we start.

and the photoshop template:

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Image guideline
The image of each ship must be a top view B&W blueprint with suitable contrast, resolution 300 pixels/inch and size in pixels equal to:

drittal

just curious as to why the range one value is higher than range two? Also could the ER SA's include a bonus to die rolled for the plunging fire?

swarbs

swarbs

also, when you list things like:

16x 4 in 5/5/4/-
27x 3in 5/5/3/-
12x 3.5 in 4/4/3/-

are you thinking that for a broadside value (assuming these are secondary guns) that these numbers are for 1/2 the listed amount of barrels? (e.g. the number of the secondary armament that could actually fire at a target per side of the ship)

Jesse_James

So how would plane rules work for attack planes? For the very very few.

I don't think we plan on planes for a while.

hgraves

that could reflect the jump in accuratcy these vessels showed at extreamly short range as opposed to short ranges.

NeuralDream

NeuralDream

Let's think about the gunnery guidelines a bit more.

They should be related only to the guns that can be used in each of the four directions.

Take for example HMS Lion that is a typical battlecruiser.

For broadside I think it can use all 8 x 13.5in guns. So let's assign a large value for this
I suggested 14/16/14/12, because I have the impression that at 1,600 yards (range 0) it is difficult to aim so low. I'm probably wrong, so 16/16/14/12

The QE class had 8x 15in guns. So, 18/18/16/14 or so.

For the secondaries, swarbs is right. It's lower than what I suggested because of the reduced number of guns you use even broadside.

In any case, we should look at the plan of a ship before assigning attack values. For example how many 13.5 in guns can the HMS Lion use when attacking in front?

hgraves

personally i think the idea of haveing scoutplanes moveing about providing fireing bonuses and such is a good one even a little ability as ASW.

also being me i want the zeppelins and blimps to have thier place in this game as well as ship towed kite balloones (maybe as a SA). i am currently thinking (I'll dig up the facts from my refrences tonight that a German P class (L-11) should have a speed of 5-6 under the guidelines posted. wearas a british blimp should have a speed of 4.

other services provide by LTA in WW1; submarine spotting(I think a blimp tryed to bomb a sub once), minefield spotting(also i think they tryed to detonate mines with rifle fire and bombs with varing degrees of success), early war capture and investigation of merchant shipping (that ended as soon as incindiary bullets where avaliable), And fleet scouting. of course.

as far as fixed wing scouts the one lauched during jutland suffered a engine falure and had to return before travelling any significant distance

that don't mean it should not be possible in our game but....

NeuralDream

Can you please review these?

hgraves

10x13.5 is on the Iron Dukes, as well as the King George IVs, and Orions,

um it is hard for me to correlate that much data. but i noticed that.

NeuralDream

hgraves

oh ya thats right the "lost barrels" aspect forgot all about it. Very Happy

givin the "graininess" of the rules it makes perfect sense however.

i'll correct Iron Duke sortly.

NeuralDream

Aquarius

We should talk about the cost.

Given the conversions that you have, I would say that we convert all of the costs to US Dollars.

Now that we have that, how does that translate to point cost? Or do we give each player an amount of $ to buy their ships with (say $150M).

NeuralDream

Jesse_James

NeuralDream

That's what Lothar said first about the game. That it will be cool to use real price instead of points. I think it's a brilliant idea and shouldn't create imbalances.

Jesse_James

I would vote on it.

NeuralDream

I've improved the template and added it to the guidelines list. I guess it's time to choose the person who will actually make the cards. Any takers?

Jesse_James

NeuralDream

I don't have such a jpeg here, but it's not possible to use the template without photoshop and good knowledge of it anyway. It has about 30 layers for the various nations' insignia, flagship bonus, background image, all stats, logos, blah blah blah ... In other words it can't be edited as jpeg. I copied some of Bondboy's techniques to make it.

Jesse_James

I wait til I get home then (6 ish my time)

Aquarius

I could offer my Photoshop services (I'm pretty decent at it...)

NeuralDream

hgraves

so do we want to divi' up the ships into sections for the photoshoppers to handle a part of the work?

Me personally i will be able to work on this in fits and starts rather than consistantly. i am sorta slow at data entry for one and for second i am limited to no work to do at work days which happen but not all the time. Smile

this way nobody cross works the same vessel at the same time as anybody else. and so no work is duplicated.

if one of us gets busy we can option to bow out for the duration of the hinderance. Wink

and his ships given over to someone else that can.

also i am curious as to a final list of first wave test ships. so as to concentrate our efforts better. Smile

NeuralDream

I think that the work of the card makers is trivial, as long as we have the stats. So, there's probably no need for dividing the work. The tricky thing is to find a good blueprint of the unit and its cost.

drittal

The guidlines on armour need work. Baden would havean 8 vital with 30mm deck armour.

NeuralDream

NeuralDream

We have a problem with the aircraft costs. They were really cheap.

E.g. the Caudron R6 fighter would cost $15200 per plane. That's too little. 6 of them would cost only $0.1M.

lotharlutjens

Maybe the A/C comes for free with the cost of the ship that carried them. Maybe you buy an "aerdome unit" much like a CV in WAS. The planes come with that. Just ideas off top of my head. Haven't delved into the air realm yet. I am sure that something will be thought of.

NeuralDream

hgraves

maybe we should consider a "engagement generator" purely as aoptional rule. (aren't all rules pertaining to setup and victory conditions in a game optional Razz

)
this could define by rolls and choices the perameters of the engagement.

optimumly it should take no more than 5-15 mins to run thru and could perhaps include a sort of flowchart to speed its use.

perameters could include size of attacking party size of defenders. air assets avaliable? (for Germany) Zeppilens availiable? weather? objectives for attacker and defender and map deployment. as well as map setup...

A player may be allowed 2 charts where instead of rolling randomly he/she may Choose the result. so if you have somebody that really must have air support then they allow other things to be choosen for them. like weather. Twisted Evil

attacker/defender may be choosen randomly or decided or rolled for who may decide.

NeuralDream

Just noticed something with the gunnery ratings. Between 1-2 and 3-7 there's a 2-dice gap. This leaves us with the pretty good choice of distinguishing between 3-4 and 5-6 guns.
For example, you have:
1-2 x 12/50 11 10 9 7
3-6 x 12/50 13 12 11 9
7-10 x 12/50 15 14 13 11
11+ x 12/50 16 15 14 12

Why not the following?
1 x 12/50 10 9 8 6
2 x 12/50 11 10 9 7
3-4 x 12/50 12 11 10 8
5-6 x 12/50 13 12 11 9
7-8 x 12/50 14 13 12 10
9-10 x 12/50 15 14 13 11
11+ x 12/50 16 15 14 12

I noticed this while working on the Torgut Reis that should have different broadsides.

What do you think?

lotharlutjens

Yes, we could expand the range of possible attack die further than I did. I am just wincing over the prospect of redoing those gunnery lists, I was following a pattern and to change one means changing them all. It would allow more fine tuning particurally amongst the Pre-Dreadnoughts that carried far fewer main guns. Then of course, all the values of all the ships we have already rated would change. I'll need a breather before I step off into that project. BTW, I am really frustrated right now in not being able to send you those pics. I finally figured out how to E-mail them to you but I think I made a mistake in attaching all 3 files. It took well over an hour to send and then right at the very end it told me that it had failed because of the ammount of material I was sending. Burned me up.

NeuralDream

Yes, it's a difficult thing to re-do the gunnery of 23 ships, but maybe we could do one per day and Aquarius will change their cards once a week, or something like that. After all, everything needs double-checking.

If you wish, I can add all these in the guidelines to use them from now on and once in a while we correct the existing cards if they need corrections. Most won't.

lotharlutjens

I think your right, It should really only affect the ones with small numbers of guns, I was so angry last night, I couldn't think straight. All I can say is this old computer of mine doesn't know how close it came to oblivion. Laughing

I will start the process we are speaking of in the near future.

lotharlutjens · Gun tables a work in progress.

These are old obsolete tables !!!! Verboten!!!!

Speeds ( Version 1.0 ) ( No longer Valid )
Speed 1: <15 knots
Speed 2: 15 - 23.5 knots
Speed 2 + Flankspeed S.A: 24-25 knots
Speed 3: 25.5 - 34 knots
Speed 3 + flankspeed: 34.5-35 knots
Speed 4: >35 knots

Base Fire Values

Basic Gun Values for German BB/BC/B/AC/PC

RANGE 0 1 2 3

1-2 x 3.45 2 1 1 - no DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT
3-6 x 3.45 2 2 1 - or DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT 5 (12 guns in total)
7-10 x 3.45 3 2 2 - or DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT 4 (> 12 guns in total)
11+ x 3.45 4 3 2 - or DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT 3 (> 20 guns in total)

1-2 x 4.1" 2 2 1
3-6 x 4.1" 3 3 2
7-10 x 4.1" 4 3 2
11+ x 4.1" 5 4 3

1-2 x 4.7" 3 2 2
3-6 x 4.7" 4 3 2
7-10 x 4.7" 5 4 3
11+ x 4.7" 6 5 4

1-2 x 5.9" 4 3 2 1
3-6 x 5.9" 5 4 3 1
7-10 x 5.9" 6 5 4 2
11+ x 5.9" 7 6 5 3

1-2 x 6.7" 5 4 3 1
3-6 x 6.7" 6 5 4 2
7-10 x 6.7" 7 6 5 3
11+ x 6.7" 8 7 6 4

1-2 x 8.2/40 6 5 4 2
3-6 x 8.2/40 8 7 6 4
7-10 x 8.2/40 10 9 8 6
11+ x 8.2/40 11 10 9 7

1-2 x 9.4/40 7 6 5 3
3-6 x 9.4/40 9 8 7 5
7-10 x 9.4/40 11 10 9 7
11+ x 9.4/40 12 11 10 8

1-2 x 11/35 8 7 6 4
3-6 x 11/35 10 9 8 6
7-10 x 11/35 12 11 10 8
11+ x 11/35 13 12 11 9

1-2 x 11/45 9 8 7 5
3-6 x 11/45 11 10 9 7
7-10 x 11/45 13 12 11 9
11+ x 11/45 14 13 12 10

1-2 x 11/50 10 9 8 6
3-6 x 11/50 12 11 10 8
7-10 x 11/50 14 13 12 10
11+ x 11/50 15 14 13 11

1-2 x 12/50 11 10 9 7
3-6 x 12/50 13 12 11 9
7-10 x 12/50 15 14 13 11
11+ x 12/50 16 15 14 12

1-2 x 15/45 13 12 11 9
3-6 x 15/45 15 14 13 11
7-10 x 15/45 17 16 15 13
11+ x 15/45 18 17 16 14

Basic Gun Values for British BB/BC/B/AC/PC

RANGE 0 1 2 3

1-2 x 12 lb 1 1 - no DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT

or 3"
3-6 x 12 lb 2 1 - or DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT 5 (12 guns in total)

or 3"
7-10 x 12 lb 3 2 - or DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT 4 (> 12 guns in total)

or 3"
11+ x 12 lb 4 3 - or DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT 3 (> 20 guns in total)

or 3"

1-2 x 4" 2 2 1
3-6 x 4" 3 3 2
7-10 x 4" 4 3 2
11+ x 4" 5 4 3

1-2 x 5.4 (FR) 3 2 2
3-6 x 5.4 (FR) 4 3 2
7-10 x 5.4 (FR) 5 4 3
11+ x 5.4 (FR) 6 5 4

1-2 x 6" 4 3 2 1
3-6 x 6" 5 4 3 1
7-10 x 6" 6 5 4 2
11+ x 6" 7 6 5 3

1-2 x 6.5 (FR) 5 4 3 1
3-6 x 6.5 (FR) 6 5 4 2
7-10 x 6.5 (FR) 7 6 5 3
11+ x 6.5 (FR) 8 7 6 4

1-2 x 7.5 6 5 4 2
3-6 x 7.5 8 7 6 4
7-10 x 7.5 10 9 8 6
11+ x 7.5 11 10 9 7

1-2 x 9.2 7 6 5 3
or 10/40
3-6 x 9.2 9 8 7 5
or 10/40
7-10 x 9.2 11 10 9 7
or 10/40
11+ x 9.2 12 11 10 8
or 10/40

1-2 x 12/35 8 7 6 4
or 12/40
3-6 x 12/35 10 9 8 6
or 12/40
7-10 x 12/35 12 11 10 8
or 12/40
11+ x 12/35 13 12 11 9
or 12/40

1-2 x 12/45 10 9 8 6
3-6 x 12/45 12 11 10 8
7-10 x 12/45 14 13 12 10
11+ x 12/45 15 14 13 11

1-2 x 12/50 11 10 9 7
or 13.5/30
3-6 x 12/50 13 12 11 9
or 13.5/30
7-10 x 12/50 15 14 13 11
or 13.5/30
11+ x 12/50 16 15 14 12
or 13.5/30

1-2 x 13.5/45 11 10 9 7
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
3-6 x 13.5/45 13 12 11 9
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
7-10 x 13.5/45 15 14 13 11
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45
11+ x 13.5/45 16 15 14 12
or 13.4/45 (FR)
or 14/45

1-2 x 15/45 13 12 11 9
3-6 x 15/45 15 14 13 11
7-10 x 15/45 17 16 15 13
11+ x 15/45 18 17 16 14

You just count the guns that can fire in a particular FOF and then count the range, this is your base dice thrown in that particular FOF.

Aquarius

Is this the final list?

lotharlutjens

Ok I'm half done on my version 2.0 Gun Table, there are now 7 catagories of gun ammounts to choose from, instead of the original 4. The German charts are done, I have to go to town for some supplies, I will finish the British side of the charts when I return. (I guess I should rename them Central Powers and Triple Entente.) And Aquarius, God I hope so, but you never know. Someone could always come up with a bigger and brighter idea. Note that the new charts are posted near the end of this thread, I haven't got rid of the old ones yet in case there's a problem.

lotharlutjens

Version 1.1 of the new speed table has been added to page one of this sticky as well.

Version 1.1 ( Speed Table )

< 10kts= Cripples Speed 0 *** ( See Cripple Rule )

11-14kts= Monitors Speed 1
Trawlers and Subs

15-18kts= Pre-Dreadnoughts Speed 1 SA All Ahead Full
Coastal Def. Vessels

19-22kts= Dreadnoughts Speed 2
Slow Cruisers

23-26kts= Fst Dn's and Slw Bc's Speed 2 SA All Ahead Full
Fst Cruisers

27-30kts= Battlecruisers Speed 3
Scout Cruisers
Slow Destroyers

31kts + = Other fast craft Speed 4

Explanations......

All Ahead Full : If this unit makes no course deviations ( turns ) during it's movement step, this unit gains + 1 speed

Cripple Rule : ( This replaces WaS rule ) all crippled ships assume speed 0. A ship traveling speed 0 can either temporarily gain "All Ahead Full" and move 1 sector straight ahead, or, it may remain in the sector without moving, but may change it's facing. ( Crippled ships are struggling just to stay afloat, maneuvering is pretty much out of the question )

Jesse_James

Brass

The guidelines as posted don't include what constitutes L M and S guns and L M and S targets or the procedure for determining AA factors.

As I recall, we decided that Small guns were up to 5.5", Medium up to 7.5", and Large everything over that, although I think there was a suggestion to make 15" and above Very Large. I can't remember what the deal was with target size, although that may have been in the gun size discussion somewhere. I know there was a discussion of AA factors but I haven't been able to find it.

If we're going to add more ships we'll need this information, which I'm sure somebody with a better memory than mine can provide.

swarbs

I can look around a little bit too. If there won't be enough people around to really do ships, then perhaps at least we can put a lock on one version of the rule-book and get it all in order and in one place. Same with the stat guide-lines. Then it'll be easier to pump up production a bit later.

Brass

swarbs

You're right, there must have been some discussion elsewhere, perhaps in a ship thread or something.

Edit.

Here's two more:
http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about4111.html
http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about4186.html

The first one starts with a really big change that we didn't adopt, but I think they then tend towards what we ended up with.

swarbs

So, yes Small guns were up to 5.4, perhaps 5.5 depending on HMS Chester I think (which actually was the only example of 5.5's we've seen so far). For what constitutes the medium/large split I don't know yet, I've seen 7.5, 8.5, 9.9...

I think it's 8.5 after looking through the cards. There are 8"ers as small batteries, and I think I saw a 9.2 listed as a Large battery, but after looking at a bunch of cards, maybe I'm confused. I'm pretty sure it's 8.5.

You are right about 15" too, they get ER5, though not sure if they need a separate icon or a separate gun size.

This still leaves a place for ER SA's (a smaller gun that performs well) and perhaps for another SA, something like quick traverse (ship takes no penalty shooting down one ship size). Or a negative version for, say, a medium size gun whose ponderous rate of fire deserves a -1 against medium targets.

Anyway, I'm slowly starting to catch up.

Guidelines for the cards of Dreadnought Rising units

Gun tables a work in progress.