Sindor
|
FIN/RUS Winter War 1940 (6&4-6)Here you can find map and battle details:
Armies
50 pts, 1 rare, deployment zone 2 hexes from the shorter side of the map.
 Errata: Finnish may use Maxim HMG & 82mm mortar as their national units (as they were in the finnish army roster already at the dawn of the winter war on 30th November 1939). Russians may use Fanatical Sniper.
Tips for beginners
- SOVIET UNION: You have tanks, enemy don't. But beware: the marshes are dangerous for vehicles and heavily forested area is very hard to get through ...
- FINNLAND: You have a very difficult task: with few national units from Set 6, you have to find some other war material - try german Pak36, Maxim HMG, 82mm mortar or even Polikarpov I-16 (remember +2 pts/ +25% price penalty for using enemy unit)
Map: Frozen marshes
* Use classic skirmish battle (objective = center).
Special: Marshes and rivers are frozen: Infantry may cross the river without penalty. When a vehicle attempt to cross a marsh or river, it is immobilized in the ice on the roll of 4+. Roll only one when entering the hex.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
if I understand correctly I am USSR and we are playing on this map.
|
Sindor
|
да, товарищ кавалерист 
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I see the USSR machine gun can be pulled by a team of horses. Do we have a team of horses?
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
"deployment zone 2 hexes from the shorter side of the map"
is that top-bottom or left-right sides of the map?
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | | "deployment zone 2 hexes from the shorter side of the map" Is that top-bottom or left-right sides of the map? |
Which one do you see as a shorter one? Top-bottom.
The team of horses is sadly in campaign MiniSet together with gun tractors and mules and other things, but I did not want to overcomplicate your beginnings  (consider horses as temporarily eaten by hungry Russians)
|
Sharpe
|
| Sindor wrote: | | (consider horses as temporarily eaten by hungry Russians) |
Do they regrow at night from the bones like Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjostr?
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
top-bottom makes more sense. I actually thought shorter one was left-right... ie shorter distance to the objective.
OK. So we set up on the top or on the bottom.
Soviets have no horses... no spotter... no tanks above 3 rear defense and the fight is in horrible tank country. hmm... it sounds like the Fins are not so overmatched at all. The Soviets have few advantages to use.
That 5 defense Finish soldier costing 3 points. Whew! That is one tough piece.
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | Soviets have no horses... no spotter... no tanks above 3 rear defense and the fight is in horrible tank country. hmm... it sounds like the Fins are not so overmatched at all. The Soviets have few advantages to use.
That 5 defense Finish soldier costing 3 points. Whew! That is one tough piece. |
I meant shorter side in term of hexes ...
OOps. Sorry. There is clearly a bug in pricing. We have played only once for the Finns - 16x 5/5 infantry in forests on this map is a killing combo. Would your opponent accept Ski Squad for 4 pts?
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
no... the card says 3. He can have them for 3 points.
I'll have to find a way to deal with a lot of 5 defense soldiers.
|
Sindor
|
That's a spirit  Hats down. Now where is your opponent?
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | Soviets have no horses... no spotter... no tanks above 3 rear defense and the fight is in horrible tank country. hmm... it sounds like the Fins are not so overmatched at all. The Soviets have few advantages to use.
That 5 defense Finish soldier costing 3 points. Whew! That is one tough piece. |
woops. I assumed 1939. It is 1940 and that does change things. The USSR has some nasty vehicles by then from the KV series.
my mistake.
|
Sindor
|
Does KV-2 entered in your thoughts? Yes, a juggernaught for 40 pts ... but to get this piece of metal on the objective might be difficult
I forgot to ban heavy russian tanks as in RUS/POL map, this makes it very interesting how finish units will handle them
|
Sindor
|
... when I go through finnish units I find KV2 unbeatable by them (6 out of 6 rolls necessary to disrupt it). I advise to follow the history and omit this unit from the army roster for the moment (as there were no KV2 in the winter war).
This one even Germans feared and one had stopped their division for 2 days until running out of ammo 
|
RAEVSKI
|
Sindor could you please post my possible units here, Oh Polish Cavalryman please don't be cruel.
|
Sindor
|
Possible units:
National:
. Ski Squad
. Suomi SMG
. 37mm AT Bofors
Bought from Allies:
+ Maxim HMG
+ 82mm mortar
+ 40 mm Bofors
+ Pak36 AT Gun
Captured:
- BA10
- BT7
- T26
- Polikarpov I-16
Mea culpa. There should be the same statement written as in RUS/POL map: "No russian heavy tanks"; because there is no edit option, I cannot update it. There were only T-28 medium tanks in that war, as KV's were still in the development phase (KV-2 introduced in mid-1940)
|
RAEVSKI
|
oh i can't download the cards could you post please
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
| RAEVSKI wrote: | | oh i can't download the cards could you post please |
that is not very easy to do so he probably will not. I could create PDF copies for you if you have no other way to get them.
you can't open them or you can't even download them?
To open you need some kind of common picture viewer. To not be able to download? Well unless the site is blocked by your software I'm not sure why you can't download.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
| RAEVSKI wrote: | | Cavalryman please don't be cruel. |
hey now... you got to pick the fight and you got to pick the sides and you have 5 defense soldiers for 3 points... I'm not going to further restrict my options.
so I may use a 1940 KV tank. OK... I won't use the one with 6 rear defense as Sindor indicates they were not present in this fight... so I just contradicted myself. I will restrict myself to not using that one. The other two have 7/5 defense. Those would be tough nuts to crack. But they would also be almost my entire army and would have a horrible time getting to the objective.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
| Sindor wrote: | | Mea culpa. There should be the same statement written as in RUS/POL map: "No russian heavy tanks"; because there is no edit option, I cannot update it. There were only T-28 medium tanks in that war, as KV's were still in the development phase (KV-2 introduced in mid-1940) |
ooops... now I just saw this.
so I guess I can't use KV-1, KV-2, or KV-8.
hmmm....
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | ooops... now I just saw this.
so I guess I can't use KV-1, KV-2, or KV-8.
hmmm.... |
Yes, sorry for that. Anyway now waiting on Raevski, I sent him the cards on e-mail.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
army sent.
|
Sindor
|
Finally, Armies:
Polish_Cavalryman
2x 82mm mortar (20 points)
1x Ataman (7 points)
3x Cos. Cavalryman (12 points)
1x Partisan (3 points)
1x Grenadiers (4 points)
4x anti-infantry mines (4 points)
---
50 pts
Raevski
Bofors (11)
Finnish 37 PstK/36 ATG (6)
7x Ski troops (21)
3x Suomi SMG (12)
----
50 pts
|
RAEVSKI
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: |
To open you need some kind of common picture viewer. To not be able to download? Well unless the site is blocked by your software I'm not sure why you can't download. |
Software is blocking the download sorry, I do all this at work and the work computer is the till as well so is protected well
|
RAEVSKI
|
who sets up first?
if we roll here i go highest setsb up 1st
Rolls: (2d6)  
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
setup roll
Rolls: (2d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
can someone explain the infantry mine for me?
I set them up now? Do I get dummy mines or not? If I do how am I going to do this?
Mines anywhere but his setup area right?
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | can someone explain the infantry mine for me?
I set them up now? Do I get dummy mines or not? If I do how am I going to do this? Mines anywhere but his setup area right? |
See the Barbed wire for deployment rules (up to 4 hexes from your deployment zone; example in RUS/POL map). Place 1 real and 2 "dummy" mines for each real mine. Send me in message which one is the real one. Of course you deploy fake mines as they were real.
Explosion of infantry mine is described on its card.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
yikes.
If I can only place them 4 rows from my setup then I will probably choose not to deploy them at all if I can... they will simply blow up my own guys and impede my own progress.
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | yikes.
If I can only place them 4 rows from my setup then I will probably choose not to deploy them at all if I can... they will simply blow up my own guys and impede my own progress. |
No, you are not affected by your mines (you have the plans), so you can place your units in the minefield to prevent attacking them.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
OK. There are some odd trade offs here. I don't think I should be able to mine the objective but obviously given the trade-offs here (not being able to place any on his side) I will have to consider it.
My setup:
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I will PM Sindor the "real" Mine locations within 5 minutes.
The Polish Cavalryman is stading in for the Soviet Ataman.
My opponent can setup starting 5 minutes from now.
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | My setup:
|
I do not see the point to deploy the communist partisan in the Opponent deployment zone? But ... dein kampf
|
RAEVSKI
|
Bofors AA B6
1x ski B6
ATG b7
1x ski b7
1x ski a3
1x suomi a3
b3 contains 1x ski, 1x suomi
B4 2x ski
B5 1x ski, 1x suomi
|
RAEVSKI
|
Init
Rolls: (2d6) reroll Rolls: (2d6)  
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
initiative
Rolls: (2d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
with +1 for the Ataman I win intitative by the slimist of margins.
2 Cavalry move to F2
1 Cavalry moves to F3
Ataman moves to G3
Grenadier to I6
Partisan to C2
your move...
|
Sindor
|
Please update the map if possible.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I'll let him update the map after he moves. If he cannot then I'll have to do it after my assault turn.
|
RAEVSKI
|
I have no pictures of my figs, I'll do my move then you shoot
Bofors is stationary B6
Ski from b6 to C7
ATG is still at b7
Ski at b7 moves to c7
Ski and Suomi at a3 to B2
ski, suomi at B3 to c4
2x skis at b4 to C5
ski, suomi at B5 to C6
|
RAEVSKI
|
which hexes ddid the cavalry trvel through so i can dicount them as being mined?
|
Sindor
|
| RAEVSKI wrote: | | which hexes ddid the cavalry trvel through so i can dicount them as being mined? |
Friendly units can pass through mines without being hit (as I said in other room, you have the maps of your own minefields) - so there is no clue which ones are real.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
first heeavy mortar targets the hex at C6
estimate
Rolls: (1d6) 
reality
Rolls: (1d6) 
dispersion (if estimate not > reality)
Rolls: (1d6)
key:
1=drift to west
2=drift to NW
3=drift to NE
and so on around the target...
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
so 2 attacks somming at C6 then
Rolls: (7d6)
Rolls: (7d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
1 disrupted
1 dead
I forgot they were different units. Here is a roll to determine which got it.
on a 1-2-3 the dead unit is the ski
on a 4-5-6 the dead unit is the SMG
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I should have included the roll.
Rolls: (1d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
the other heavy mortar targets C7
estimate
Rolls: (1d6)
reality
Rolls: (1d6)
dispersion
Rolls: (1d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
other moves as shown. Your assault phase.
[list=]http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh261/Polish_Cavalryman/assaultturn1.jpg[/list]
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
 [/list]
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
could have been better... those guys need to aim better next time because we won't have such an easy shot again. dang.
|
Sindor
|
PS: You might used the Set 6 unit icons for finnish infantry I have posted in the Discussion room ... but never mind
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
the Mosin is standing in for thr Ski (they look warm) and the Soviet SMG is standing in for the Finnish SMG. At least on my maps they will be. And the Zis is standing in for the Finnish AT gun.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
is there a time you can be on here Raevski that I can make multiple moves at the same time as you?
I fear we could be playing each other for 2 weeks while eveyone else is done with nothing to do while they are waiting for us.
|
RAEVSKI
|
i am on line 10 hours a day from 7am to 5pm Brisbane time unfortunately i can't change that. On Saturaday 8am to 2pm that is still friday for you.
|
RAEVSKI
|
Do i get defensive fire on the partizan as you move in assault to D1 ?
If i do, my assault is Suomi Rolls: (10d6)
Ski Rolls: (8d6)
|
RAEVSKI
|
assault move c7 skis to d6
c5 skis to d4
|
RAEVSKI
|
does bofors have a shot at the ataman when he was in g3?
Do I have line of sight?
Tough questions.
If yes to both then
Rolls: (8d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
there is no line of site from B6 to G3.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I don't know how the bofors would get defensive fire though anyway.
Please make cover rolls for me. You can roll for the Partisan. If he's stuck in C2 then he's stuck. No big deal.
|
RAEVSKI
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | | there is no line of site from B6 to G3. |
It is a bit of a strecth but monitors can distort things a little.
cover for partizan
Rolls: (1d6)
|
RAEVSKI
|
and again
Rolls: (1d6)
and your shooting?
|
Sindor
|
Bofors is an AA gun, with defensive fire against aircraft - cossacks are flying too low
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
| RAEVSKI wrote: | | and your shooting? |
I assume you mean the Partisan?
well since he is disrupted then I guess he doesn't have much chance. I had not remembered about you getting defensive fire.
anyway he will attack the SMG in B2
Rolls: (7d6)
at 5+ only to hit.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
well... let's hope we finish turn 1 today.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I have to admit the HHR does not seem consistent with regard to defensive fire. I'm not sure of the logic by which there is defensive fire against my Partisan for example in this case. I don't have defensive fire against his units for ENTERING the adjacent hex. So I'm not sure it makes sense to get defensive fire for the opposite case.
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | | I have to admit the HHR does not seem consistent with regard to defensive fire. I'm not sure of the logic by which there is defensive fire against my Partisan for example in this case. I don't have defensive fire against his units for ENTERING the adjacent hex. So I'm not sure it makes sense to get defensive fire for the opposite case. |
But, hell, yes it is consistent When you arrive on the adjacent hex, you are running, charging or crawling to remain hidden until the latest moment ... on the other side, when you are leaving the adjacent hex with an active enemy in the back, you retreat
As I explained in other room, this also prevents "fire-in-the-face-and-say-goodbye" tactics with units having SA Strike and Fade.
|
Sindor
|
PS: What about setting a time for player meeting? We have CET and Raevski is in Australia so... +8:30 hours, so he is sleeping already.
Damn.
Polish_Cavalryman, you should play at work, and Raevski at home in the evening
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
yeah... I am at work now.
Evenings are hard but I will try and check in a few times tonight.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
| Sindor wrote: | | Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | | I have to admit the HHR does not seem consistent with regard to defensive fire. I'm not sure of the logic by which there is defensive fire against my Partisan for example in this case. I don't have defensive fire against his units for ENTERING the adjacent hex. So I'm not sure it makes sense to get defensive fire for the opposite case. |
But, hell, yes it is consistent When you arrive on the adjacent hex, you are running, charging or crawling to remain hidden until the latest moment ... on the other side, when you are leaving the adjacent hex with an active enemy in the back, you retreat
As I explained in other room, this also prevents "fire-in-the-face-and-say-goodbye" tactics with units having SA Strike and Fade. |
I guess I just don't agree then about that one. I'm trying out HHR. Some things are good.
|
Sindor
|
Podziękowanie - I hope be better and better
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
well I've been trying to check in more often... I'll keep trying. But at this rate our second game won't be done until some time in July.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
got to be turning in now... Goodnight.
|
RAEVSKI
|
apologies i was sick on line more often.
|
RAEVSKI
|
init next turn?
Rolls: (2d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
You didn't make any moves or attacks in your turn 1 assault.
Are you sure that's what you want?
Inititative
Rolls: (2d6) +1
if you want to move/attack please go ahead and do it. But we'd have to re-roll our initiatives since you should not be able to know who has initiative for the next turn.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I'll continue to check in. We should be able to finish turn 2 sometime next week.
|
Sindor
|
Maybe you should really agree on some playing time. At 11 AM in Poland, Raevski has +8:30 = 19:30 in Australia; this seems to me a reasonable time for both sides to communicate.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I am not in Poland. I am in the United States of America. Central time zone (Chicago).
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | | I am not in Poland. I am in the United States of America. Central time zone (Chicago). |
Ehm. I was following your country ID
Then Chicago has now noon 12:00 AM and Australia (IF Raevski is in his country) has 3:00 AM = When you will connect to the computer in the evening at 17:00 PM, Raevski may join you at 8:00 AM...
And I will have 24:00 midnight ... silly Earth 
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I'll try and check in at least once tonight.
It is my opponents descision about what to do regarding his assault phase. He basically skipped it and can have that back if he wants.
|
RAEVSKI
|
Oh yeah forgot i only disrupted him i thought i'd killed him
Suomi at partizan
Rolls: (10d6)
Ski at partizan
Rolls: (8d6)
Init again apolgies
Rolls: (2d6)
|
RAEVSKI
|
you nee d acouple of saves to save him.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
and cover is next to impossible in HHR. But at least this guy has +1 cover.
(again... please feel free to make my cover rolls whenever you want. we are taking too long as it is. I don't care about making my own)
here are both rolls...
Rolls: (2d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
looks like I need 10+ on my roll to gain initiative.
Rolls: (2d6) +1
|
RAEVSKI
|
do i move or you
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
Cossack and Ataman from F2 move to J2
2 Cossack on E2 move to G1
Grenadier stays.
your move.
|
RAEVSKI
|
2X skis to e7
1xski, 1x suomi to d3
1x ski 1x suomi to c2
2x ski to e4
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
your skiers only have speed 1. I'm not sure how you got to E7 and E4.
|
RAEVSKI
|
1st group
!st turn move to c7
assault move to d6
2nd turn move E7
2nd group
1st turn movve c5
assault move D4
2nd turn move E4
It is in my posts not posted on your map though
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | and cover is next to impossible in HHR. But at least this guy has +1 cover.
(again... please feel free to make my cover rolls whenever you want. we are taking too long as it is. I don't care about making my own)
|
I agree that without trenches and concealment option, these games are very quick because of low cover value - that was intended for first round.
Usually, with all "options installed", the infantry concealed in trenches has a strong defensive cover 2+/3+/4+ which is quite impenetrable without heavy artillery or bombing or flamethrower attack.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I missed that part of your post. Sorry.
Mortar 1 fires at D3 where you have a SMG and a ski...
estimate
Rolls: (1d6)
reality
Rolls: (1d6)
dispersion
Rolls: (1d6)
(1 = west, 2 = NW, 3= NE...)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
that hits nothing...
I'll try again:
est.
Rolls: (1d6)
real
Rolls: (1d6)
disper.
Rolls: (1d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
well those forests should be "brush" now...
Ataman and Cossack to J3
2x Cossacks to J2
Grenadier to I6
your assault.
I can make a map tomorrow. It's up to you to make a map for today.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
just need your assault move and turn 2 is complete. The disrupt would be removed at the end of the turn.
|
RAEVSKI
|
2x skis to f7
ski, suomi from d3 to d4
ski, suomi from c2 to d2
ATG to c8 (if road bonus d7)
Init next turn
|
RAEVSKI
|
Init Rolls: (2d6)
reroll if needed
Rolls: (2d6)
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
I do not believe infantry get a road bonus... even in HHR.
initiative
Rolls: (2d6) +1
(FYI we can't tie unless my Ataman is disrupted or killed)
|
RAEVSKI
|
do i move
|
Sindor
|
| Polish_Cavalryman wrote: | I do not believe infantry get a road bonus... even in HHR.
(FYI we can't tie unless my Ataman is disrupted or killed) |
No, there is no "road runner" bonus in HHR
BTW Speed 1 equals in HHR approximately to the speed 0-14 km/h. Other speeds are multiples of this.
|
Polish_Cavalryman
|
you can go first this turn.
Turn 3 begins...
|
