| Archive for Axis & Allies ForuMINI Specialised in the World War II Axis & Allies Miniatures and War At Sea Games |
| lıkos |
Dealing with KV-1s in '41Hi everyone,I'm looking for strategies and/or builds for Germany to deal with KV-1s in 1941 without getting too vulnerable to an infantry swarm. 88s, Elite Panzer IVs aswell as SS units are no option. Any help is greatly appreciated. Regards, lıkos |
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| King Tiger |
what points level and what sets do you use or not use, and why no Flak 88's?, cus without them there really is not many guns left able to easily hurt a KV
doesn't really leave many tanks left to choose from, Panzer IV ausf.E would probably end up being your mainstay, with Ausf F's simply there for smoke cover, and stug III's could be useful. but like I say it depends on the pts levels |
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| lıkos |
In this particular case I will have 110 points at my disposal, but I'm looking for strategies in general. I won't use 88s because I simply don't own any. As for the Sets: I have a little bit of everything, no V1 vehicles though.
Trying to kill KV-1s with Panzer IV Es or StuG III Ds isn't a very pointeffective method. This is a rather important factor since I will be playing a campaing in wich heavy losses in one game will make the next one that much harder to win. |
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| King Tiger |
well for 1941 games there is very little left to take out tanks, so point ineffective or not, you ain't got a choice, its either them out pak 36, or pak 38's |
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| Field Marshal PF |
Ah, well now you know how the Germans armoured units felt when they first encountered these monsters. But they still had 88mm guns, you apparantly do not.
Heres what I would do. Bring a platoon of 4 Panzer III Ausf. Fs(52pts), or Panzer Iv Ausf. E(56pts). All you need to do is to disrupt the KVs with the tanks, and that is very possible. At the most he'll have 3 KVs but likely only 2. If you really want to out number him, rbing 6 or either tank(68-74pts), you'll have 6 attack to disrupt one of them if you concentrate, he has only 2. Bring Kubelwagons/pioneers(10pt combo each) to finish off the disrupted KVs. If your worried about the kubels being too weak, then Hanomags will work even better. Heres what I would field: 5x Panzer III Ausf. F (65pts) 2x Pioneers (14pts) 2x Sd Kfz 251 (14pts) 4x Mauser Kar 98k(12pts) 1x Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen(5pts) |
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| lıkos |
Thanks for the input.
The ATGs don't pack enough of a punch to be of any use I think. The Pioneers would at least add some finesse to this tank-rush-strategy. It is very vulnerable to infantry though. Any other ideas? On a sidenote: I won't be posting my builds or ideas because my opponent also reads this forum. I'm more or less collecting inspirations. |
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| RAEVSKI |
Hopefully, the stuka will fix thw Kv1.....
or try the Romanian trick, swamp it with AT Grenadiers. 6 grenadiers at 24 points and the rest infantry, give him no targets for his guns. I would try a 110 point Romanian build Vig Lui 8 12 AT grens 48 18 Rom inf march up the table and what his tanks die |
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| TorontoBizz |
Maybe the German flame thrower guy. You might get lucky with three "6s" and just toast it! | ||||
| Field Marshal PF |
Getting them close will be a problem. |
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| carrion |
After you both set-up and are ready to do battle, point behind him and ask "What the Hell is that" as he turns his head to see what you are talking about take his KV-1's off the table and throw them against the wall as hard as you can. Can't play them if they are in peices on the floor. 
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| Field Marshal PF |
Agreed, this about the best you can do without 88s. |
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| lıkos |
The Romanias could do the trick, if there are no Maxims on the board. If there are, the Grenadiers won't get to the tanks.
Flamers could be awesome, if I' m lucky. But integrating "being lucky" in my strategy is something I'd rather not do. Well, I guess I'll have to stick to carrion's plan. Thanks for the effort guys. |
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| King Tiger |
in 1943 builds yes it will |
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| Richter von Manthofen |
(Kübel + Pioneer) x2 - this should od versus a single KV-1 (+12 points advantage) - how mayn KV-1 does your opponent own - and is likely to field?
I thought tha KV-1 was a 1942 unit??? (revision change?) I would trade you a NA 8-8 if you want - 
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| lıkos |
Two KV-1s the the maximum I will have to deal with, but I can't tell how likely it is, that he fields both of them. It might also very well happen that he fields mainly - if not exclusively - infantry. That's the real problem. If I knew that he would bring both tanks, I could plan accordingly. But now I need a build that is capable of dealing with those beasts while at the same time being able to fight off a soviet infantry swarm. |
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| King Tiger |
well it should be even earlier, the KV was around from 1939, or at least 40 for the A and E, the revised card says 1941 the old said 42 |
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| Amandil |
Add the following negative SA to your opponent's KV-1 card:
Tactical Inflexibility: In 1941, only one of these units may deployed per 100 points. (In 1941, Russian tank strategy was inspired by that of the French. So while one KV-1 could hold up a German advance for days, chances are [or so I understand] you wouldn't encounter two or three of them in a 100-points-equivalent skirmish. Either that, or I'm just desperate to nerf the KV-1 a little bit for 1941 battles.) Alternatively, use my custom Panzer III Ausf. J card: http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about5940.html
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| georgeb |
I would use 3 - 4 Flamingo tanks (1941) and rush them (Speed 4). then pray that you roll 3 sixes. They cant roll for cover and you destroy them. Other than that your swcrewed. | ||||
| mercenary_moose |
My friend (Jeff5665 on this board) once said that his troops could take out any tank with a toothbrush and a box of snowcones. When asked how that would work against a Tiger he said: "You just run up to the tank, rap on the hull, ask them 'Hey guys, ya want a snowcone?' and when they come out, you shank 'em with the toothbrush!" Could that be a viable option against the KV-1s? | ||||
| lıkos |
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| lıkos |
Just an Update on how it went:
I used: Disciplined Spotter Kübelwagen leIG18 x2 Pioneers x2 Flammenwerfer 35 x2 SdKfz 251 x2 StuG III Ausf. D x2 Wehrmacht Expert Sniper My opponent used: KV-1 T-35 Maxim M1910 MG x2 40mm Bofors L60 Commissar Soviet Grenadiers We rolled for the map setup and got a rather open one with the objective on a group of hills. My troops quickly advanced to the objective and avoided LOS to his tanks while the sniper moved into a position with a good field of view. After some maneuvering I got backed into a corner when my opponent "offered" me an exchange of fire at medium to long range between his KV-1 and my StuGs with me having no possiblity to get at least all my vehicles out of LOS. In the ensuing firefight I maneuvered to get LOS to the T-35 and eventually destroyed it. His KV-1 however got off only a single shot damaging one of my StuGs and spent the rest of the game avoiding LOS to my sniper. Neither the T-35 nor the Bofors were able to do any damage to my StuGs due to some bad dice rolling. Having lost his Grenadiers and one Maxim to my leIG18s and the T-35 to my StuGs without inflicting any losses to my forces he decided to retreat. A stunning victory which leaves with an even greater advantage in points for the next match. For those who wonder: We are playing the Eastern Front Campaign for the Close Combat Campaign System http://community.wizards.com/go/t...M_34Close_Combat34_Campaign_Rules |
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| mercenary_moose |
Proving why the Expert Sniper is a broken piece. One 11-pt. mini singlehandedly alters the game without even firing a shot.
Anyway, sounds like a great game. Good job on the win. |