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NeuralDream

Club Med: Italian, Greek, French, Australian, NZ, Can units

Thanks to chesty's work, this is a piece of cake:

Italy - all are eligible without need to explain as it is not possible for an Italian unit to not sail in the Med.

Ambra - 10 in class
Antilope - 50 in class  
Aquila - 1 in class [planned/fantasy unit]
Ascari - 17 in class
Bolzano - 1 in class
C.202 Folgore
Caio Duilio - 2 in class
Duca d'Aosta + Eugenio di Savoia - 4 in Montecuccoli class
Giulio Cesare - 2 in class
Zara + Gorizia - 4 in Zara class
Giuseppe Garibaldi - 2 in class
Ju-87 R2 Picchiatelli
Leonardo da Vinci - 6 in class
Vittorio Veneto + Littorio + Roma (fantasy?) - 4 in Vittorio Veneto class
Luca Tarigo + Ugolino Vivaldi - 12 in Navigatori class
Motor Torpedo Boat - 24 in MAS type
Pegaso - 4 in Orione class
Re. 2001 CB
San Giorgio - 2 in class
Scipione Africano - 3 in class
SM.79 Sparviero
Trento - 2 in class
Z.506B Airone

Greece - all operated in the Med.
Georgios Averoff - 1 in class. Med and Indian ocean.
Vasilissa Olga - 2 in class. Med only.
Proteus - 4 in class. Med only.

France
Algérie - 1 in class. In Toulon.
Béarn - 1 in class. Béarn was in Toulon.
Casabianca - 31 in Redoubtable class. Toulon, Algiers etc.
D.520
Dunkerque - 2 in class. In Toulon.
Gloire - 6 in La Galissonnière class. Gloire was in Algiers and Toulon.
Le Terrible - 6 in Fantasque class. Took part in Ajaccio landings etc.
Milan - 6 in Aigle class. Some in the class were stationed in Toulon.
Provence - 3 in class. In Toulon
Richelieu - 2 in class. In Toulon while in Allied service.
Suffren - 4 in class. Suffren operated in the Dodecanese, Alexandria etc.
V-156F Vindicator

not allowed: Lamotte-Picquet. Was sent to the Far East long before the war started.
not allowed: Jean Bart. Never sailed through the Gibraltar straits.


Australia
HMAS Sydney - 3 in class. Fought against Italians in the Med.
HMAS Nizam - 5 in class. Operated off Crete.

NZ
HMNZS Leander - 2 in class. 1941 Syria-Lebanon Campaign.

Canada
HMCS St. Laurent - 5 in class. HMCS Restigouche in Med in 1943
HMCS Sackville - 79 in class. HMCS Louisburg was sunk in Med in 1943
not allowed: HMCS Haida. No Canadian Tribal served in the Med
not allowed: HMCS Uganda. Served in the Med only as HMS, but not after it was transfered to the Canadians
P71

Aquila - Never commissioned or sailed, so at least needs to be marked into "Fantasy" category.

Roma - Was only sailed to the RM's surrender. Never "operated".

Bearn - Only loaded the French Gold Reserve at Toulon to ship it to the US. Spent entirety of war transporting outside of the Med.

Sydney - HMAS Hobart never served in the Med, so class limit is 2.

Leander - Only Leander made it to the Med, Achilles was South Atlantic/Indian/Pacific only, so class limit is 1.
NeuralDream

The class limit doesn't have to do with how many operated in the Med. Only with which ship did. Sydney did. So, its class is in. Leander the same.

Even if only to load the French Gold, this is still an operation that Bearn took part in.
P71

That's contradictory to your earlier statements to Brigman in the other threads. So now if any ship in the class served in theatre, we get them all?

So because Victorious served in the Baltic, CFS can have Illustrious back?
sublime828

P71 wrote:
That's contradictory to your earlier statements to Brigman in the other threads. So now if any ship in the class served in theatre, we get them all?

So because Victorious served in the Baltic, CFS can have Illustrious back?


Check the other thread P71, Im all for restricting units to the units that served in theater but not that all multi-national clubs have to operate under class-limits.  Classlimits will still be an agreement that players make before beginning a match.  ND simply means if that a class of ship that is represented in  WAS operated in a theater, it is a viable option.
NeuralDream

P71 wrote:
That's contradictory to your earlier statements to Brigman in the other threads. So now if any ship in the class served in theatre, we get them all?

So because Victorious served in the Baltic, CFS can have Illustrious back?

No, no. Victorious is in the Baltic. So, you can use as many ships with the victorious card as the class limit.
Illustrious did not serve there (I think). So, you can't use the Illustrious card.

If we were talking about a destroyer or a torpedo boat, the answer would be yes, but for large ships you look at the specific unit.

Again, the only guideline that I've been repeating in all threads, but I think I should just sticky and colorcode is:
_____

    - Did this specific WAS battleship / this specific WAS carrier / this specific WAS cruiser / this type of aircraft / this class of subs / this class of destroyers / this type of torpedo boats operate at any point during the war in my theatre of operations?

    If the answer is yes, then you can have it in your list and you can use as many of this unit as the class limit (or whatever houserule you agree with your opponent).

______
I was really hoping to make things easier with this concise explanation, but judging by the amount of misunderstandings, I should have provided examples rather than this guideline. It really hasn't worked Laughing.
P71

A Cruiser is a specific "big" ship though, not a class. That's why I'm not following. You state "this specific WAS cruiser" but then allow 3x Sydneys and 2x Leanders (which is Class).

So if I have this right now, for Capital ships (CL, CA, CVL, CVE, CV, BB, BC, CB, etc) if the specific named card ship served in theatre, we get all of that ships class UNLESS a sister has been printed that did not serve (example being Victorious/Illustrious, CFS can use Victorious and take the full class limit of 4 of them, but cannot use Illustrious since she's a named sister that didn't serve there). If the only named ship of a class printed did not serve in your theatre, then you have no access to the class (St. Lo only served in the Pacific, so even though her class was all over the Northern Atlantic and Med, CFS and Club Med can't have her).
NeuralDream

No, there is no "unless". I really don't know where this started, but I need to remove it if it is anywhere.

HMAS Sydney took part in the Med. So, according to the guideline you can have as many HMAS Sydneys as its class limit, which is 3.

HMNZS Leander took part in the Med. So, you can have as many Leanders as its class limit, which is 2.

I know it sounds bizarre to be able to use four Victorious, when you know very well that at least one of them in WAS (Illustrious) didn't serve there, but that's how RB set up his historical limit rules. In normal WAS, even though we all have a Tirpitz and a Bismarck, you can still choose to just field two Tirpitz's because they are better and just ignore your Bismarck, and that's legal under official WAS historical limit rules.
P71

No, that's what the UNLESS means! So CFS can have Victorious and play up to 4 (Victorious's) in a Class Limits game, but CANNOT play Illustrious as she specifically did not (maybe) serve there, even though her class did. That makes sense if that's the way you want to go.

Still doesn't answer part 2 though, which is if a Capital ship CLASS served in theatre, but the ONLY specific printing in WaS did not, then the whole class is a no-go, correct? (For example, Arizona obviously never made it to SoPac, but her sister Pennsylvania did. But because Arizona is the only version made, we don't get the class at all).
NeuralDream

You are right with both.
P71

OK, gotcha! Now I get it. This helps a LOT!

Thanks for your patience!
SWO_Daddy

According to the W@S Rulebook, Richelieu has a class limit of two.

(Yes, I know the other is Jean Bart. However if were saying that Illustrious operated in the Med and its OK to bring her class limit, even though every ship in the class didn't operate there, the same should go for Richelieu.)
torpman

Why is LB illegal? She had sisters in the Med. Also I can to the Brits for you
NeuralDream

torpman wrote:
Why is LB illegal? She had sisters in the Med. Also I can to the Brits for you

You mean LP? For cruisers, carriers and battleships, we are looking at the specific ships, not their classes. For smaller ones, we are looking at the classes.

SWO_Daddy wrote:
According to the W@S Rulebook, Richelieu has a class limit of two.
Yes. Thanks.
Asbestos

torpman wrote:
Why is LB illegal? She had sisters in the Med. Also I can to the Brits for you


Because that specific ship wasn't... its all a headache.

Once we do all this I plan on sorting through and linking RR and FN cards of relevance. Not for classes we don't have, but sisters and such.

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