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Bull Halsey

Club Atlantic Theater of Ops: Unit lists

Here are the units i have come up with for CA. For my club, im putting restrictions on the BBs, CVs and CA/CLs. I hope i can count on all of your feed back to help me. Cheers all!

German units may include all ships that operated such as:
BBs/PBBs:
Bismarck (+1)
Sharnhorst
Gneisenau
Graf Spee
Scheer
CAs:
Prinz Eugen(+1)
Atlantis (+3)
Carriers:
Graf Zeppelin (Subject to change and only 1)
Multi class
Any German destroyers, mine sweepers, and S-boats (except the`ZG3)
Any German submarines.
Up to 4 Kondors (limited numbers)
Bf 109s
JU87s will only be allowed by a majority vote from other club presidents. I don't want to make this a club that stomps on other clubs.
(My reasoning for the GZ as it would help the Germans greatly if they had this to bring mobile air support)

British units may include any of the following:

HMS Hood: sunk by bismarck in battle of the denmark strait.
HMS Rodney (+1) Sunk bismarck
HMS Prince of Wales : was with the hood when it was sunk.
HMS Warspite (+1):was with the home fleet until 1941 when it was transfered to the med
HMS Royal Oak (+1): sunk at scapa flow.
HMS King George V: helped sink the Bismarck
HMS Repulse: Enforce German blockade in the north sea.
Carriers:
HMS Eagle (South Atlantic) Patrolled South atlantic to catch the Graf spee
HMS Victorious (+3) was part of the Taskforce that sunk the Bismarck
HMS Ark Royal: Aircraft from AR disabled the Bismarck
Up to 4 Fencers: Escorted convoys between the US and GB
Cruisers:
Any of the Kent Class heavy cruisers (6 at the most. Subject to change): Scouted bismarck and helped sink it
HMCS Uganda(HMS Jamaica): Escorted Convoys to and from Canada.
HMS Belfast (+1)
HMS Sheffield (+2)
HMS Exeter (+york?): was at the Battle of the Rio Plata. was hit by Graf spee.
Destroyers:
Any of the Tribal class (no Aussies!) particapated in the North Atlantic operations
Any J Class destroyers: served with the home fleet, escorted most capital ships.
Any Canadian ships
Aircraft:
Marlets
Hurricanes
Swordfish
Barracudas
Halifax
Sunderland
Beaufighter

American Ships:
Battleships:
USS Washington (+1) Served with the RN to keep tirpitz bottled up
Cruisers:
USS Quincy (+2):destroyed shore targets at normandy.
Destroyers:
USS Kidd (+10) Escorted Convoys to greatbritian
USS Phelps (+2):escorted Convoys to great britian and russia
Carriers:
USS Wasp: Served in the RN, Ferried aircraft to malta.
Aircraft:
TBF-1 Avengers (lendlease)
Catalinas (lendlease) spotted the bismarck
Liberators (lend Lease) served wiith the RAF Coastal command ASW Squadrons.
All of these operated sometime between 1939 and 1945. How does this look? what can i do to improve? what should i add or delete? Very Happy
Brigman

Bull, my first suggestion would be to add a short citation by each unit - doesn't have to be long - as to how it operated in theater.  That was the standard ND asked me to follow anyway.

There is currently also a restriction on BB, CV and CA/CL units in that the *specific* unit must have served in theater.  This does *not* apply to subs or DDs, in which only an example of the class must have served in the theater.  

So, for example, did St. Lo herself operate in the Atlantic?  If yes, she's good; if no, you can't use her or her sisters (as the rules currently stand).

Just trying to outline ND's requirements for you; not trying to shoot down any of your units - I haven't researched any.  

Whilst doing my own research, CFS lost a few units, but gained some as well.  Overall I think it was a net gain.
Bull Halsey

oh so tru! lol. ill be sure to edit m list.
danaussie

Gosh thats alot of research, good job P71. Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

Dan Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
Bull Halsey

danaussie wrote:
Gosh thats alot of research, good job P71. Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

Dan Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

P71? Dan i think your eyes are messing with you again Laughing
danaussie

Bull Halsey wrote:
danaussie wrote:
Gosh thats alot of research, good job P71. Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

Dan Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

P71? Dan i think your eyes are messing with you again Laughing


I think so....sorry Bull Embarassed  Laughing Pie in the face time again. Laughing

Did you just join CRN as your National Club Bull? Also I have read your proposal, you can start your Club HQ thread whenever you are ready although it will not be stickied until you have met all Club House criteria for launch but go ahead its looking good. Still need an avatar and 5 members as well as some other requirements, but you know all that already. Keep in contact with me mate, I'll give you all the help you need.

Cheers Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

Dan
Bull Halsey

Yeap! CRN is my National Club Very Happy and thanks dan! ill set it up tomorrow. im tired and have church lol.
Cheers Danno! Very Happy
Bull Laughing
Bull Halsey

oh Btw, what other requirement? i thought i had the Avatar and 5 members left Laughing Very Happy
danaussie

Bull Halsey wrote:
oh Btw, what other requirement? i thought i had the Avatar and 5 members left Laughing Very Happy


I guess not requirements but other things you would want in your Club to attract members, requirement was the wrong word to use. Things like a Club Banner and Incentive Schemes, Ranks and Awards, that kind of thing, to prompt participation in League Games for your Club, but this can all be added later.

I'll add you to our books while I'm thinking about it. For my part I really want to join CFS since they have the option to play one of my favorite (difficult to win with) fleets the Soviets, but I will join Club Atlantic if after a week or so you still need a 5th to launch they are my second choice.

Cheers for now Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy

Dan
Bull Halsey

Thanks dan for the support! ill get all of that up soon!
NeuralDream

Bull, we need to define your geographical area.

My first impression is that there is a 80% overlap with CFS units by including the CFS Atlantic area in your club too (all you miss are some Soviet units and maybe some cruisers in the Aleutian Campaign). Am I right?

I need everyone's thoughts on this.
Bull Halsey

in all honesty i thought id only overlap up to Iceland or Greenland. thats really only a 20-30% overlap
NeuralDream

Bull Halsey wrote:
in all honesty i thought id only overlap up to Iceland or Greenland. thats really only a 20-30% overlap
I mean overlap of units, not as much geographical overlap. It would be interesting to see how much the two of you differ. It can't be too much. Most Allied ships in Frozen seas would also be in the Atlantic. If your units overlap by 20-30 or even 50% that's just fine, but if you are 80% similar, it may be a problem.
SWO_Daddy

I'd actually expect a fair amount of overlap in US and RN units between the various "Theater" clubs.  A number of USN units operated in the Atlantic before heading to the Pacific, and some of the more notable Royal Navy ships operated in virtually every theater before the war was over.
sublime828

I large number of US ships operated in the CFS theater throughout the course of the war.  Dunkurque even participated in the pursuit of gniesnau and scharnhorst.  We have chosen to leave these units out for now to preserve the Flavor of our club.
Bull Halsey

oh alright ND i see. some of the units maybe the same. im about to to take Warspite off as she really was in the far north and the Med. ill still take any of your ideas into CA. thisis not my club, but Forumini's club.
Brigman

My suggestion - for what it's worth - and only from a flavor standpoint... is that we have the US units with Club Atlantic and the Russians with CFS.  That gives the two a distinctive flavor right there.  

I have to give Sublime kudos for his dedication to club flavor over "power grab".  Well done chief! Smile

There are a few US planes we're using that operated in the CFS theater (TBF-1, Vindicator, and the Russian lend-lease stuff), but that's all we're using as far as I know.

Bull, if you want some help with researching specific units, I can assist.  Let me know!
NeuralDream

Can someone list the operations in the Atlantic that do not involve CFS please? That's up to the 50th.

My quick guess is that the only operations below the 50th were a handful direct convoys to Africa and the Battle of River Plate. Perhaps the two clubs should negotiate their geographical boundaries, because at the moment I dont think that Club Atlantic is bringing anything new to the table. It can't simply be a gentleman's agreement in terms of units allowed. It will also have to be shown on the map. Perhaps the Atlantic portion of CFS should be moved up a bit. After all the Channel isn't that frozen :p.

Can you discuss this please before I prepare the new map?
Bull Halsey

of course ND! Very Happy im sure we will work something out. i also agree at leaving US with CA and Soviets with CFS.
Brigman

After all the work I put in and research I've done, I would strongly resist having the line moved on CFS.  I think our roster is fine as is and don't mind Club Atlantic sharing units with us, but don't want to lose yet MORE units to an imaginary (and apparently moving) line in the seas.

It is not a "gentlemen's agreement" if it is reflected on our operational rosters.

I don't mind the overlap, but with all respect to Club Atlantic, CFS was here first. Sad

Please, let's not keep moving the target.  It invalidates a lot of work and is extremely frustrating for those of us sinking time into it.
sublime828

Brigman wrote:
After all the work I put in and research I've done, I would strongly resist having the line moved on CFS.  I think our roster is fine as is and don't mind Club Atlantic sharing units with us, but don't want to lose yet MORE units to an imaginary (and apparently moving) line in the seas.

It is not a "gentlemen's agreement" if it is reflected on our operational rosters.

I don't mind the overlap, but with all respect to Club Atlantic, CFS was here first. Sad

Please, let's not keep moving the target.  It invalidates a lot of work and is extremely frustrating for those of us sinking time into it.


Agreed Very Happy
Bull Halsey

well said. CFS was here first. CA will make nessarry changes.
danaussie

Bull Halsey wrote:
of course ND! Very Happy im sure we will work something out. i also agree at leaving US with CA and Soviets with CFS.


The US with Club Atlantic and Soviets with Club Frozen Seas seems like distinction enough for me, besides Club Frozen Seas also has minors from Sweden and Finland at their disposal whilst Club Atlantic does not. Geographicaly I agree that CA should only draw its line up to Iceland and to Narvik to the East then allows only for a minimal overlap so that CA can then tap into the German units that they need. Some units will be shared but that will be fine.

...two cents and 1 each way.

Dan Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
sublime828

sounds good to me, we don't mind the overlap Very Happy
Bull Halsey

Great! im glad we all have come to an agreement! Very Happy Ill be looking forward to playing you guys under the Atlantic Flag! Very Happy
sublime828

what a nice avatar you have Very Happy
Bull Halsey

you can thank your own Brigman! Very Happy
Brigman

Happy to help out. Smile
P71

Complete Order of Battle for all Arctic and Atlantic actions:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_oob...antic/index_OOB_WWII_Atlantic.htm
Brigman

Note that while that does show all the major battles, it is not all-inclusive, especially for convoy escort operations in the theater.

Good resource though!
P71

Brigman wrote:
Note that while that does show all the major battles, it is not all-inclusive, especially for convoy escort operations in the theater.

Good resource though!


Correct, this is just for fleet actions. You will have to research convoy operations, single-enemy duels (such as u-boats, etc), and surface actions (invasions, bombardments, etc) afterwords.
Brigman

USS Iowa (BB-61) first operated in the Atlantic, and was employed in escort duties off the coast of Newfoundland in anticipation of an attempted breakout by Tirpitz.  It didn't transfer to the Pacific until 1944.
danaussie

Great job on the Club Atlantic avatar Brig, great job. And thank you.

Dan Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy
Brigman

USS Massachusetts BB-59 served in the Atlantic, along with her sister, USS Alabama.  They transferred to the Pacific in 1943.
Brigman

You're welcome Dan! Smile
Combat Wombat

Free French In the Atlantic

Just a few of the Free French Naval fleet ships verified however I am still working on if any were exclusive to the Med or Pacific Theatre of Operations.




Battleships

        Courbet class

Paris (obsolete)
Courbet (obsolete) - scuttled during the Battle of Normandy
 
Cruisers:

Georges Leygues and Montcalm


French-built escorts

Léopard (Chacal class destroyer) - lost 27 May 1943

       Le Fantasque class

Le Triomphant
         
       Bourrasque class

Mistral
Ouragan

       Escorts leased by the British

La Combattante (Hunt class destroyer) - lost 24 February 1945
         
       Flower class

Aconit (K 58) (ex. HMS Aconite)
Alysse (K 100) (ex. HMS Alyssum) (lost 9 Feb, 1942)
Commandant d'Estienne d'Orves (K 93) (ex. HMS Lotus)
Commandant Détroyat (K 183) (ex. HMS Coriander)
Commandant Drogou (K 195) (ex. HMS Chrysanthemum)
Lobélia (K 05) (ex. HMS Lobelia)
Mimosa (K 11) (ex. HMS Mimosa) (lost 9 Jun, 1942)
Renoncule (K 117) (ex. HMS Renonculus (K 117))
Roselys (K 57) (ex. HMS Sundew)
       
       Cannon class

Algérien - formerly USS Cronin (DE-107)
Hova
Marocain
Sénégalais
Somali
Tunisien
       
       River class

Croix de Lorraine (K 258)
Aventure (K 263)
Escarmouche (K 267)
Découverte (K 370)
Surprise (K 292)
Tonkinois (K 260)
       
       Submarines

Rubis
Minerve
Junon
Iris
Curie - formerly HMS Vox (P67)
Doris - formerly HMS Vineyard (P 84)
Morse - formerly HMS Vortex (P 87)
Surcouf
     
       Cargos

Fort Binger
Franche-Comté
Indochinois
Félix Roussel
zangetsu24

French units that served in Atlantic

Battleships :

Richelieu -  served with British Home Fleet from Nov 1943 - March 1944

Dunkerque -  participated in shipping of gold to Canada and was flagship of task force Force de Raid in Atlantic before transfer to mediterranean .

Cruisers :

Gloire (+2) Carried gold to Canada . Participated in Atlantic patrols as part of Force de Raid . Feb 1943 to Jan 16th 1944 searched for axis blockade runners in central and south Atlantic.

Algerie -  carried gold to Canada


Planes:  

D.520 -  Battle of France

Vindicator - Battle of France
NeuralDream

Jean Bart was stationed in the Atlantic, I believe.
P71

NeuralDream wrote:
Jean Bart was stationed in the Atlantic, I believe.


Correct. Spent the whole war at Casblanca in Morocco.
zangetsu24

Quote:
Correct. Spent the whole war at Casblanca in Morocco.


wouldn't that be more mediterranean sea area?
Bull Halsey

guys, could one of you put all the french units that are in WAS in a single list so i cann just copy and paste? Great thanks! Laughing
Cheers guys!
Bull Very Happy Very Happy
Combat Wombat

Free French Atlantic Operations

Just a few of the Free French Naval fleet ships verified however I am still working on if any were exclusive to the Med or Pacific Theatre of Operations. You asked and I kinda delivered..lol...

Battleships

Dunkerque - participated in shipping of gold to Canada and was flagship of task force Force de Raid in Atlantic before transfer to mediterranean .

Jean Bart -Spent the whole war at Casblanca in Morocco

Richelieu - served with British Home Fleet from Nov 1943 - March 1944

Courbet class

Paris (obsolete)
Courbet (obsolete) - scuttled during the Battle of Normandy

Cruisers:

Gloire (+2) Carried gold to Canada . Participated in Atlantic patrols as part of Force de Raid . Feb 1943 to Jan 16th 1944 searched for axis blockade runners in central and south Atlantic.

Algerie - carried gold to Canada


Georges Leygues and Montcalm: Both at the Normandie landings


French-built escorts

Léopard (Chacal class destroyer) - lost 27 May 1943

Le Fantasque class

Le Triomphant

Bourrasque class

Mistral
Ouragan

Escorts leased by the British

La Combattante (Hunt class destroyer) - lost 24 February 1945

Flower class

Aconit (K 58) (ex. HMS Aconite)
Alysse (K 100) (ex. HMS Alyssum) (lost 9 Feb, 1942)
Commandant d'Estienne d'Orves (K 93) (ex. HMS Lotus)
Commandant Détroyat (K 183) (ex. HMS Coriander)
Commandant Drogou (K 195) (ex. HMS Chrysanthemum)
Lobélia (K 05) (ex. HMS Lobelia)
Mimosa (K 11) (ex. HMS Mimosa) (lost 9 Jun, 1942)
Renoncule (K 117) (ex. HMS Renonculus (K 117))
Roselys (K 57) (ex. HMS Sundew)

Cannon class

Algérien - formerly USS Cronin (DE-107)
Hova
Marocain
Sénégalais
Somali
Tunisien

River class

Croix de Lorraine (K 258)
Aventure (K 263)
Escarmouche (K 267)
Découverte (K 370)
Surprise (K 292)
Tonkinois (K 260)

Submarines

Rubis
Minerve
Junon
Iris
Curie - formerly HMS Vox (P67)
Doris - formerly HMS Vineyard (P 84)
Morse - formerly HMS Vortex (P 87)
Surcouf

Cargos

Fort Binger
Franche-Comté
Indochinois
Félix Roussel

Planes:

D.520 - Battle of France

Vindicator - Battle of France

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