| Archive for Axis & Allies ForuMINI Specialised in the World War II Axis & Allies Miniatures and War At Sea Games |
| BattleshipOverkill |
Bombers vs. PT BoatsThis came up in a game we had last night and I apologize if it's already been covered...Judy dive bombers were attacking US PT boats. Naturally they completely obliterated them since the PTs only have armor 1 and hull 1 and it's not hard to get at least one successful roll with a dive bomber. Considering how hard it was for a dive bomber to plant an "egg" on a huge carrier maneuvering at 25+ knots we figured it would be even tougher for the same dive bomber to hit a tiny PT boat weaving around the ocean at 40+ knots. I couldn't find anything in the rules about this and the PT's high speed evasion SA states it only works against gun attacks. Any thoughts on this? |
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| jfkziegler |
As far as I know, you played it correctly. In my games, PT boats are a poor investment because they usually get wiped out by strafing fighters. | ||
| BattleshipOverkill |
Strafing fighters would have a far greater chance of hitting a small boat since they're close in and throwing a wall of lead in front of them.
What we find hard to believe is a bomb being dropped from around 800 - 1000 feet hitting a fast moving, evading PT boat. It wouldn't be impossible but I would be willing to bet the odds are less than 1 in 10,000. |
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| chesty |
House Rule it. 
I happen to agree with you. So does every single person I've ever played against. I've heard different versions, but my personal favorite is pretty simple... Only guns can damage PT boats. Was a torpedo boat ever sunk by a torpedo? I don't know, but it doesn't seem likely. Except for the Schnellbooties, torpedo boats had wooden hulls that were unlikely to flip the magnetic triggers on torpedoes, and shallow enough drafts that direct impact seems unlikely. So, torpedoes shouldn't work. Was a torpedo boat ever sunk by a bomb? Again, I don't know, but it doesn't seem likely. Because of their inertia, bombs tended to explode underwater, where a good percentage of the shrapnel would be absorbed by the water. Seems like you'd need a direct hit, or so close that it might as well be a direct hit, to damage a torpedo boat with a bomb. Bombs don't sound like a credible threat, either. That leaves guns. Guns are good. 
My $2. |
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| jfkziegler |
I was under the impression that PT boats were immune to torpedo attack anyway. | ||
| NjCo |
Yes, this is in the latest rule update (Feb. 4th) but I think it was there in previous updates as well. You could also apply the revised rule that states that main guns on BBs get a -2 penalty when attacking torpedo boats (only hit on a 6 bit they still do 2 hits). Just say this rule applies to all bombs from aircraft. It's a reasonable extension. This updated rule also applies to destroyers as well though. Not sure if limiting bomb attacks against destroyers would be a good idea. But applying this rule would certainly convince anyone attempting to attack a PT boat with planes to stick with a strafing attack. |
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| swarbs |
Yep, as far as the rules are concerned, there is no penalty that I've heard of, so you played it right.
As far as bombs killing torpedo boats, though, I'm not sure why it would really need to hit the thing just to kill it. Plenty of much larger and more armored ships took damage from near misses, it seems like a pt boat would be quite vulnerable to splinters from bombs exploding nearby etc. Just a thought, but of course you should house rule the game to your liking. |
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| BattleshipOverkill |
Thanks for the feedback, fellas.
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| Diamondback |
Actually, DD's were about your best surface choice against PT's: superior mass for the ram (think PT-109), some durability and a decent chance to crack the boat on one volley if it connects, which there's a decent chance of. If you can depress your AA battery far enough, that's a better choice than opening up with the bigger bores... faster refire and faster traverse.
Air, I'd rather strafe 'em than bomb 'em. Even if I got an SBD with full hardpoints, I'm still gonna use my .30s on a PT and save the bombs for a more worthwhile target... |
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| Task Force 57 |
if you house rule no dive bombing vs pt's then we will have to give DB's (and perhaps Torp bombers) a house gun value
kate/val/daunts/avenger guns 2 sword guns/albercore guns 0 baracuda/stuka/devestators 1 they did have fixed armament, hell on the paka-bran strike RN avengers nailed a pair of oscars in air to air. |
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| Diamondback |
And Dauntlesses were occasionally used in CAP and BARCAP roles, too. (BARrier Combat Air Patrol, kinda like having a "picket" scout-plane out before the radar-picket destroyers were hatched.
I'd also allow such bombers to strafe at the same time as they make a bomb/torp attack, but that's just 'cause I'm the kinda pilot who goes for the "point after" as the nose swings clear for the peel-away--who knows, maybe I'll take out a flak-dealer and make the guy behind me's pass a little easier...lol Then again, I'm almost as nuts as Ducks, so... |
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| weyoon |
I have to agree. I've read a few instances where DDs were severely damaged structurally by near miss bombs. Replace metal with with wood and it makes it that much easier. Also I could see the wake from a large enough bomb causing a PT to roll over. |
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| weyoon |
Back at the Navy tender ship, a mother base where several PT boat squadrons refueled and got supplies, Caldis stood on its deck when a boat towed in PT 524. During the north Leyte battle, a Japanese bomb just missed this PT boat, but the shrapnel had not.
PT 524's captain had survived with three fingers missing. The executive officer - Strawn Taylor, Caldis' former executive officer - survived, “but he was riddled with shrapnel.” The remaining dozen or so crew members died. From here http://legacy.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=56801 |
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| chesty |
That must've been almost a direct hit, then. A very close miss, anyway.
Let me point something out. Bombs don't explode on the surface of the sea. Depending on the fuses, they can get pretty deep before they explode. Perfect for use against hulls with relatively deep drafts, or even submarines, in some cases. PT boats have shallow drafts, and are less susceptible to under-water shock waves. Beyond about 30 yards or so, there's not much metal moving with enough energy to hurt you, according to what they used to tell us in amphibious assault training. 
Edit... Statistically speaking.
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