88
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200 point US army build for Feb. 7th tournamentOkay I'm debating on which US army to use for our tournament game at my FLGS this weekend.
Option1:
1X: M4A1 Sherman
1X: P-40 Tomahawk
1X: M4A3 (105) Sherman
1x: Ram Kangaroo
2X: M1 81mm Mortar
1X: Resourceful Hero
1X: Ammo Dump
1X: Eagle-Eyed NCO
2X: "Red Devil" Captain
2X: Marines M2-2 Flamethrower
6X: M1 Garand Rifle
2X: Thompson Gunner
4X: Untested Recruit
4X: Jeep's
1X: Pillbox
or
Option2
2X: M4A1 Sherman
1X: P-40 Tomahawk
1X: M4A3 (105) Sherman
1X: P-51D
1X: M1 81mm Mortar
1X: Ammo Dump
2X: "Red Devil" Captain
2X: Marines M2-2 Flamethrower
2X: Rangers
2X BAR Gunners
1X: CCKW 352
2X: Marines M2-2 Flamethrower
6X: M1 Garand Rifle
1X: Thompson Gunner
I'm leaning toward option1, I think it offers me the best combo of punch, mobility, and defense. I know that A&AM is a rock, paper, scissor type game, but what do you think?
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Andreas3
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no M12 GMC  !?!?!?!?!?
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TorontoBizz
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The first build has 3 "commanders" (2 Red Devil captians and the NCO). I've never used that many in one game. Are you trying to double up the SAs?
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88
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I thought about(M12 GMC) that for option1, but then I'd have to use spotters-rangers. My thinking is the more dice that I can bounce the better the odds for me to get a disruption/kill.
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88
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| TorontoBizz wrote: | | The first build has 3 "commanders" (2 Red Devil captians and the NCO). I've never used that many in one game. Are you trying to double up the SAs? |
Yes!!! combo! Eagle Eye(range 2-6) and Red Devil (Pinpointer).
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TorontoBizz
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How many maps are you playing on?
Why 4 jeeps? Unless you're playing on a lot of maps.
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Field Marshal PF
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More Shermans, simple as that, your opponent might bring 3-4 Panzer IV Gs, in which case, 2 Shermans won't hold their own.
I'd bring a Rhino Vet Sherman, and 2-3 M4A1s. Or maybe 1x Rhino, 1x M4A1, and 3-5x M3 Stuarts. They will crush enemy infantry.
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88
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| TorontoBizz wrote: | How many maps are you playing on?
Why 4 jeeps? Unless you're playing on a lot of maps. |
It depends, it could be 1-3 maps, on what we roll. But, think of it way. Even if I'm on a short/small map. That's 5 solider that are moving 5-10 hexes in the first turn. That's a lot of grunts to deal with in the first two turns.
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88
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| Field Marshal PF wrote: | More Shermans, simple as that, your opponent might bring 3-4 Panzer IV Gs, in which case, 2 Shermans won't hold their own.
I'd bring a Rhino Vet Sherman, and 2-3 M4A1s. Or maybe 1x Rhino, 1x M4A1, and 3-5x M3 Stuarts. They will crush enemy infantry. |
I could see your point. Sherman's are just a good all around tank. Good AI and good AT, if paired up. But I'm starting to believe that tanks don't win the game. The grunts do, they take and hold ground. Even if I had a German force with supper heavy tanks, and Vet Tigers rolling at me, i'd still think I would take the game with this build. Would anyone with a Vet Tiger want to take on 3 M1 Garand's with a commander near by, sitting on the objective on turn 7?
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88
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By the way, Thanks for all the feedback... I've already starting to reconsider some things.
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acs0424
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| 88 wrote: | | Field Marshal PF wrote: | More Shermans, simple as that, your opponent might bring 3-4 Panzer IV Gs, in which case, 2 Shermans won't hold their own.
I'd bring a Rhino Vet Sherman, and 2-3 M4A1s. Or maybe 1x Rhino, 1x M4A1, and 3-5x M3 Stuarts. They will crush enemy infantry. |
I could see your point. Sherman's are just a good all around tank. Good AI and good AT, if paired up. But I'm starting to believe that tanks don't win the game. The grunts do, they take and hold ground. Even if I had a German force with supper heavy tanks, and Vet Tigers rolling at me, i'd still think I would take the game with this build. Would anyone with a Vet Tiger want to take on 3 M1 Garand's with a commander near by, sitting on the objective on turn 7? |
You say tnaks don't win the game. In my game on saturday my infantry sat around doing nothing while my tanks demolished the opponent. Once his tanks were gone it was game over!
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88
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| acs0424 wrote: | | You say tnaks don't win the game. In my game on saturday my infantry sat around doing nothing while my tanks demolished the opponent. Once his tanks were gone it was game over! |
What were the builds? What units did you have?
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TorontoBizz
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The problem I see with jeeps is that even if they can move fast their defence is too weak. They could be destroyed before they get anywhere and the infantry in them die.
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88
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| TorontoBizz wrote: | | The problem I see with jeeps is that even if they can move fast their defence is too weak. They could be destroyed before they get anywhere and the infantry in them die. |
Blitzkrieg man... Blitzkrieg, Blitzkrieg, Blitzkrieg. The whole idea is not to move them out in the open to be blown up. The use of the Jeeps with the RAM is to get them(soldiers) in striking distance, or to burrow them in at a choke point, run them right down your throat on the first turn, or to other valuable points on the map. Force my opponent to react, and not act on his game plan.
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TorontoBizz
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After we play a tournament we often a bit of time to play but not enough for a full game. Pasalades introduced us to cpature the flag. 4 maps, 5 objectives, one in the middle one in each corner. We were palying this once and my elite panzer 4 was going up against an MG42. The MG42 got a lucky roll, 3 successes and disrupted my Panzer4.
Just wanted to illustrate the point.
Jeeps have a defence of 1, an MG42 has two attacks your jeeps might not make it. At least infantry have a defence of 4. The jeep can be easy picking and you lose a soldier in the process. Why not an M5 half-track or an inspiring LT to run the guys up a little faster?
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Steel_Panther
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What are your rules for Capture the Flag? I would like to try that somethime.
88, I would go with some Inspiring LTs insted of jeeps, take out a few infantry and the Ram and add some more armor
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88
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| TorontoBizz wrote: | | Jeeps have a defence of 1, an MG42 has two attacks your jeeps might not make it. At least infantry have a defence of 4. The jeep can be easy picking and you lose a soldier in the process. Why not an M5 half-track or an inspiring LT to run the guys up a little faster? |
I like the Inspiring LT idea... but I think you are still missing the point. I'll give a battle report after this weekend and will try to take good notes on all the battles that I fight this weekend. Maybe with photos too!
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acs0424
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| 88 wrote: | | acs0424 wrote: | | You say tnaks don't win the game. In my game on saturday my infantry sat around doing nothing while my tanks demolished the opponent. Once his tanks were gone it was game over! |
What were the builds? What units did you have? |
My 2 Cromwell IV's, My 2 Shermans, And my M3 Stuart did all the work against his 2 Panzer III Ausf. F's, 2 Panzer IV Ausf. E's, Paner II (f) Flamingo, And a King Tiger, his armored cars didn't do crap. I demolished only losing my sniper, 3"inch gun, mg,insp.leiutenant, and Spitfire Ace. Everything he had was destroyed at little cost to me because his plane killed all of those units. Quite an easy battle. Oh yeah, I also had an ISU-122 to match the King Tiger. IT was a 200 point game. My Cromwells, ISU-122, mortar and Garand survived.
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acs0424
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| 88 wrote: | | TorontoBizz wrote: | | The problem I see with jeeps is that even if they can move fast their defence is too weak. They could be destroyed before they get anywhere and the infantry in them die. |
Blitzkrieg man... Blitzkrieg, Blitzkrieg, Blitzkrieg. The whole idea is not to move them out in the open to be blown up. The use of the Jeeps with the RAM is to get them(soldiers) in striking distance, or to burrow them in at a choke point, run them right down your throat on the first turn, or to other valuable points on the map. Force my opponent to react, and not act on his game plan. |
Exactly, blitzkrieg tactics can be EXTREMELY effective in this game, if you have the right build. That's why I'm getting a bunch of Shermans. And I have 2 M3 Stuarts."Force my opponent to react, and not act on his game plan"- The perfect sentence for how I play.
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RAEVSKI
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I agree with a few people here.
1 vet sherman and 3 shermans + whatever inf you want.
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88
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| RAEVSKI wrote: | I agree with a few people here.
1 vet sherman and 3 shermans + whatever inf you want. |
I'm always warry of going stong with armor, I'd fear a Stuka build, and plus hasn't that build been over played? I just think 90 points in armor is too heavy handed. Keep in mind that I could be playing on a North Africa map one game and jungle map the next. Balance, speed and flexiablity in tactics win the game.
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88
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I'm thinking that I don't need the hero...
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RAEVSKI
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US armour is weak vs some Russian and german stuff.
Stuka thread - Quad 50cal or Mustang
2 shermans and a Stuart (American version)
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88
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What about this? Take the hero off and add two BAR Gunners and 1 Minefield, just because I need to spend the last 2 points.
Option1:
1X: P-40 Tomahawk
1X: M4A1 Sherman
1X: M4A3 (105) Sherman
1x: Ram Kangaroo
4X: Jeep's
2X: M1 81mm Mortar
1X: Eagle-Eyed NCO
2X: "Red Devil" Captain
2X: Marines M2-2 Flamethrower
6X: M1 Garand Rifle
2X: Thompson Gunner
4X: Untested Recruit
2X: BAR Gunners
1X: Ammo Dump
1X: Pillbox
1X: Minefield
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TorontoBizz
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| Steel_Panther wrote: | What are your rules for Capture the Flag? I would like to try that somethime.
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Pasalades said he will be posting the rules for this soon.
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Steel_Panther
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88, that is alot of infantry for just 5 transport people, you will need to leave behind some importatnt stuff to protect the other infantry, and if you leave behind importatnt stuff, then that will be targeted. I think, if you are going for the Blitz infantry build, more transport and less infantry
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Cpt. John Miller
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The Tomahawk sucks, don't use it. There are better more survivable pieces for taking out infantry(M3 LT, etc.) and there are MUCH better pieces for AA.
I agree with most people here that your build should be at least half armor. The USA has the most flexible vehicles, they can be used as AT or AI quite effectively. I would recommend the M12, a mortar, and 3 Rangers. I like the Sherman Commander + M12 combo in larger USA builds(Solid Tank + Initiative + Vehicle Bonus Dice).
I would also dump the Green Recruits and the BARs...wasted points.
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88
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| Cpt. John Miller wrote: | | The Tomahawk sucks, don't use it. |
We still play with the original set of rules and cards... The Tomahawk is there to spot for the mortars. 
| Cpt. John Miller wrote: | | I would also dump the Green Recruits and the BARs...wasted points. |
They are my insurance plan against nasty paratroopers, and if for anything the Green's are good cannon fodder.
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88
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| Steel_Panther wrote: | | 88, that is alot of infantry for just 5 transport people, you will need to leave behind some importatnt stuff to protect the other infantry, and if you leave behind importatnt stuff, then that will be targeted. I think, if you are going for the Blitz infantry build, more transport and less infantry |
The plan is to have too much to shoot at for my opponent, 19 troops is a lot to kill in seven turns, the 4 jeeps will get their use, and will distract at least one opponent on Saturday night. It's very disconcerting to have troops whizzing around in what would take them to do in two-three turns on foot.
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Steel_Panther
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True....but what if your opponent brings some Stugs or arty? Blast would be killer on that whorde, and Stugs could pick off some infantry from med range.
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88
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Okay thought about the BAR Gunners, and have decided to go with 2 more M1 Garands, for a total of 8!
Option1B:
1X: P-40 Tomahawk
1X: M4A1 Sherman
1X: M4A3 (105) Sherman
1X: Ram Kangaroo
4X: Jeep's
2X: M1 81mm Mortar
1X: Eagle-Eyed NCO
2X: "Red Devil" Captain
2X: Marines M2-2 Flamethrower
8X: M1 Garand Rifle
2X: Thompson Gunner
4X: Untested Recruit
1X: Ammo Dump
1X: Pillbox
1X: Minefield
I've faced off against Blast and Arty's too with a build like this... Spread them out and do a flat out charge! Sure I'll loose a few, but by turn 4 or 5 they realize that they don't have enough dice and turns to push me off the objective, or worse yet they face total annihilation. I know that virtually all the people I'll play against will go armor with high AT values, and crappy AI. I really think horde tactics works with this game.
I just thought of something... I may not have enough space in my deployment area field all this crap!
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acs0424
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Ah yes, in this game numbers do matter!!! King Tiger versus 2-3 Shermans, Shermans will win. Machine gun versus 2-3 garands and a commander, the garands will win.
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Eric Marino
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I'm pretty sure the King Tiger is equal to 3 Shermans, which is good because that is how much it costs.
Also Garands with a commander aren't a good comparison to a single machine gun.
That being said numbers do make a difference. \/ery rarely do I ever have less than 20 units. If I were going to play a soldier heavy US game I would shoot towards a goal of 40 units. I would consider taking a cheap aircraft unit like the Tomahawk, I would use this peice to kill any machine guns as fast as possible. I would feild a mix of 30-35 4pt soldiers and use the remaining points on commanders. If I wanted a little more out of the group I would take some light mortars and some light anti tank guns, a handfull of jeepzookas could destroy any brumbars that try to ruin the party.
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88
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| Eric Marino wrote: | | I would feild a mix of 30-35 4pt soldiers and use the remaining points on commanders. |
Ah... a kinder spirit! So do you think I'm a bit light on the troops? I have 16 troops with 3 commanders.
| Eric Marino wrote: | | If I wanted a little more out of the group I would take some light mortars and some light anti tank guns, a handfull of jeepzookas could destroy any brumbars that try to ruin the party. |
Bazooka seems so one sided to me. I rather go with a M1 grunt, with his CA of 7(not bad),8(better) if I have a commander near by and get's to shoot at other soldiers, and planes... And if I can stack 3 solider per hex now, heh... I doubt even a Jagdtiger is wanting to head into that buzz saw.
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Eric Marino
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I like the bazooka for some specialty attacks. Twelve points for three of them can increase the effectiveness of the force without decreasing it too much in the process. I don't know if you've followed the recent updates but with the way the new staking rules work you can drive and unload a Jeep directly in another vehicles hex, with two Jeeps you can automatically enter the hex because of the defensive fire limits. I think the bazooka is good for this because it doesn't need a nearby commander to have a good attack. If you were feeling lucky you could replace the bazookas with flamethrowers, they could pull double duty and be able to attack soldiers as well.
Vehicles with a back defense of six shouldn't be too afraid of an attack of seven or eight. Maybe if you had an ammo dump you might be more intimidating to a heavy vehicle. One thing is for sure, if you play a force that large people won't forget it anytime soon.
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88
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Well I took two out of the three games I had tonight. My opponents armies were as follows:
Opponent 1:
1X Stuka
1X Hetzer
2X Nebwerfers
1X 7.5cm
1X Grizzle Vet
1X Panzerschrek
3X Panzergreniaders
2X Sandbagged MG42
1X D. Spotter
1X Fortress Defender
2X Werewolfs
1X Mauser
2X Pillboxs
2X Barbwire
4X Landmines
Winner me; Eastern Front map. Total annihilation, Jeeps and Sherman out flanked the Hetzer, and the Nashorn. Rear shots and close assaults. P-40 took down the Stuka, duh I know.
Opponent 2
2X Shermans
1X M8 Greyhound
1X M3 (US)
2X Vickers
2X Piat
1X Canadian riflemen
1X Bar Gunner
2X M81 Mortars
1X Char B
1X R-35(?)
1X Souma(?)
1X Cromwell
Winner me; Jungle map, Total annihilation
Number3:
1X Commissar
3X Mosin/1831
1X Il-10
2X Fanatical Snipers
5X Soviet Polish units
2X IS-2 Vet
Loser me; Eastern Front map. I just didn't have enough offense. Eric, you were right... One if not two bazooka's would have com in handy. *sigh* all he had left at turn 5 was the two tanks. By turn 7 I could not budge one of the IS-2 off of the objective, even though I did manage to damage it, but lost my two tanks in the process.
More combat notes to come...
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Steel_Panther
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Hey, 2 out of 3 isnt bad! 
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acs0424
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2 out of 3 ain't bad at all. My total record is 4-5. Most of the losses have been when I was using the axis.
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