100pts German build to face 150pts British build(1943 NA)

Field Marshal PF · 100pts German build to face 150pts British build(1943 NA)

I'm fighting a scenario two weeks from now, loosely based on Operation Pugilist. We can creat our own armies, but have to use 1943 equipment that was use in North Afirca.

Heres the map:

I will playing the part of the German forces, I will have 100pts to spend and will be deployed in the town. I will recieve "dug-in" bonuses for all infantry units until they move, heavy weapons(AT gun, AA guns, howitzers) can not be moved.

The British will have a 150pt army, and will deploy in the Southern area.

Victory condition goes as follows; the British have a maximum of 20 turns to reach the far side of the map. If they fail to in 20 turns, regardless of German casualties, they loose. If either army is wiped out before 20 turns, then the win goes to the remaining army.

So heres my first draft:

2x PAK 40 AT Gun (22pts)
3x Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen (15pts)
1x SS-Haupsturmfuhrer (7pts)
6x Mauser Kar 98k (18pts)
1x MG 42 (10pts)
2x Nebelwerfer 42 (22pts)
3x Fortress Defender(6pts)

acs0424

Hm, do you know how much armor he will be bringing? I was going to say if you're britain blitzkrieg it and zoom with crusaders across the battlefield

Field Marshal PF

Yeah, that will be some trouble. I'm confident my PAK 40s will pick off a couple Crusaders, but if he wants to make a full frontal charge with a Crusader swarm with Matildas bringing up the rear, its going to be close. An 88 with a gun shield would help but that a huge investment and if he goes infantry...

I was actually thinking about bringing a Pz.IV D with an elite crew and holding it behind the front line and then using it to plug any gaps in my line once the British reach the outskirts, but maybe thats too big an investment for a reserve piece.

lýkos

This looks quite interestig.

If I were the british, I would probably leave my tanks at home and attack with either a massive force of SMLEs and Stens or Gurkhas and Brens. Both supportet by some Vickers and a Humber or two.

Based on this, I'd suggest a force mainly consisting of Mg 42s and WVIs plus a Hauptsturmführer and an Oberleutnant or some Panzerfausts.
You could also bring some minefields and place them on the hills to keep the enemy troops in the open during their advance on the city.

This might seem radical, but the map really favours infantry.

acs0424

That is possible but I've found that they are one hit wonders. You get a kill shot off but they die immediately. When I play defensively I always take tons of armor. You could do that and take a spotter. Pound him on the way in and then hit him with infantry when he gets close. Here is what I would do (no restrictions)

SSPG x5
Stormtooper x1
SS Hamster x1
Total - 49

Disciplined Spotter x1
LEL G18 x3
Pak 40 x2

The SS guys can deal with infantry up close and close assault if required. With the SS Units being 7 points each you can edit it however you want. You have 2 pak 40's to hit tanks and the G18's to deal with infantry early on.

You may want to buy a Wespe and spotter combo. It oculd deal out a lot of damage if you can protect it.

You could also take lots of Whermacht Vets, I find them to be very good.

Field Marshal PF

I agree, and in that case the Matilda is my only real concern. The British can tally-ho their way to my line quickly, and 1 MG is just not enough against an infantry swarm. Keep up with the comments guys, I have to drive a friend to the airport, i'll be back to revise my build.

acs0424

Or take a number of Pak 38's. but no ER would hurt you.

Another list:
Vet Tiger - 65
Whermacht Overleutnant - 13
Whermacht Vet Inf x4 - 20

The Vet Tiger can own the tank battlefield and the Angriff/Vet inf. combo can work well

Field Marshal PF

Oh! I forgot, we agreed that Waffen SS units are banned due to historical purposes with the exception of the Haupsturmfuhrer which will be representing a Wehrmacht officer by proxy.

acs0424

I'd probably take my first suggested build, it can hit infantry and tanks early and deal with whats left later on with close assault.

Field Marshal PF

acs0424

Well it is a vet tiger. With ER. It is powerful beyond compare. I think it could work. And infantry can close assault what the tigr doesnt kill

acs0424

No SS? Then take Whermacht vets and oberluetnants. They are second only to SS units.

lýkos

Quantity matters a lot in this situation. Four WVIs or some SSPGs will get overwhelmed in no time.
Question: Do the Entrenched SA and the Dug-In scenarion bonus add up? If yes, what about some Sandbagged Machine-Gun Teams? 6/6 defense and Supressive Fire would probably be too powerfull. But it is an option.

You need lots of infantry and as many of them as possible should have the Supressive Fire SA, otherwise you might get overrun by sheer force of numbers. WVIs can deal with most british tanks of that time. For the occasional Matilda or Valentine you should bring a couple of Panzerfausts. The beauty of your position is, that you can force the enemy tanks in CA range by retreating into the second row of town hexes. I don't see the need for expensive guns or tanks. Just have enough Defensive Fire attacks to prevent your enemy from slipping past your lines.

acs0424

Hm, Lykos you may be right. How about:

10 WVI - 50
2 Whermach Oberleutnant - 26
6 Panzerfaust - 24

lýkos

45pts WVI x9
12pts Oberleutnant
16pts Panzerfaust x4
20pts MG 42 x2
07pts Hauptsturmführer

WVIs form defensive line with MGs at the flanks. Commanders and Panzerfausts form a second line and kill the armor that managed to breakt through the first line.

Field Marshal PF

1x Wehrmacht Oberluetnant (12pts)
5x Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen (25pts)
1x SS-Haupsturmfuhrer (7pts)
3x Panzerfaust 30 (12pts)
2x MG 42 (20pts)
2x Nebelwerfer 42 (22pts)
1x Fortress Defender (2pts)

Alright guys, heres the first revision. Lykos has talked me out of the PAK 40 gun battery in favour of more infantry. I just really want to keep the Nebels. Are they a liability for their worth?

acs0424

Without shrapnel 2 they are not worth it. I would take Lykos's list.

Field Marshal PF

With 7/13/10 on AI and Blast and Bombardment, I'm not too worried about sharpnel 2. The British will be in the open for a few good turns and unless I start rolling very badly. Two rocket salvos up my sleeve will make him displace his forces a bit. Hmm, i'm still not sure.

acs0424

Well it depends on your playstyle. I would probably take the Nebels because I love to hit hard early in the game. If you launch the rocket salvos early you could possibly wipe out more than half his force.

TorontoBizz

The map appears to only have two roads, one on the left and one on the right. Am I correct? Also if you're at the north end of the town (based on the fact that north is always up, and the position of the map in this thread) do you have line of sight all the way down into the dessert? If so, they could be usefull choke points for vehicles. I like the idea of the Neb 42, and G18, good mix of AI and AT, + extended long range. If you'r worried about tanks one or two PAK 38 couldn't hurt. If I were the British I would bring a couple Matildas and a couple of scout cars. Both the Churchill and the Staghound are available for 1943.

acs0424

I would bring crusaders/staghounds if i was british, plus stuarts.

lýkos

I don't think, that the Nebelwerfer is a good investment. The enemy will hide the bulk his infantry from it and advance after it was taken out. With 20 turns, he has more than enough time.

acs0424

Correct...but the Nebels would be in cover while the enemy is in open desert. You could go with complete WVI swarm.

WVI x20

Too many targets.

lýkos

WVIs don't have enough CA to stop a Matilda or Churchill. They would drive right through them and win the game by leaving the map.

acs0424

That is if he goes slow. But with 20 of WVIs here is a plan:
He takes a Matilda swarm - 7 Matildas, 2 Stens

You are able to closa assault each matilda with 3 WVI's, except for one. That is 21 dice against each matilda. At 5 rear armor that should be enough to stop it.

acs0424

Would you like to take this over to the online matches subforum? you have 7 Matildas and 9 points of whatever, I have 20 WVI's. Same scenario that Hoth is doing.

lýkos

acs0424

Field Marshal PF

Field Marshal PF

Well I don't feel comfortable just waiting for my opponent to come close, I wan't to make his advance as painful as possible.

Heres an alternative;

5x Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen (25pts)
1x SS-Haupsturmfuhrer (7pts)
5x Panzerfaust 30 (20pts)
2x MG 42 (20pts)
2X lelG18 (14pts)
1x BF-109 (14pts)

In the past, our play group has played with a little house rule that enables aircraft to spot for "indirect fire" units, however, they cannot attack in the same turn that they spot. His might bring a Bofors to cover his back though.

Field Marshal PF

Here are more armour-centered builds:

#1

2x Panzer IV Ausf. F2 (44pts)
1x SS Haupsturmfuhrer (7pts)
2x MG 42 (20pts)
4x Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen (20pts)
3x Mauser Kar 98k (9pts)

#2

1x Panzer IV Ausf. F2 (22pts)
2x Panzerfaust 30 (8pts)
1x SS Haupsturmfuhrer (7pts)
2x MG 42 (20pts)
8x Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen (40pts)
1x Mauser Kar 98k (3pts)

lýkos

TorontoBizz

SS haups @ 7 x 1 = 7
Kar 98k @ 3 x 1 = 3
Sand bagged MG @ 10 x 2 = 20
P204 (f) @ 10 x 2 = 20
WV @ 5 x 6 = 30
Flamethrower @ 5 x 4 = 20
= 100 points

Here's my reasoning. SS Haups to win initiative which will allow the P204s (decent AI and AT) to strike in fade 2 (along the city roads), also allows your Flamethrowers to burn stuff, when they roll three "6s" the unit is destroyed immediately, so the unit destroyed can't attack back (if you're going first) Flamethrowers are better then Panzerfausts in this case because they can deal with both infantry and armour. Sandbagged MGs because they have better defence values. I imagine you'll put them on the edge of the city where they can shoot at incoming infantry, and I don't think they will move around much, so the 5/5 defence should last a while. The WV and Kar 98k inside the city to destroy units that make it accross the desert. If you lose initiative keep the P204s in cover, with 9 dice at short range, they might be able to stop armour that make it up the road into the city.

This build is light on AT. You could swap something for a PAK 38, but I feel you'd be better off close assaulting inside the city where the vehicles can't move. The flamethrower would be great for this. If your opponent brings just one Churchill it will be tough.

I also thought of using a Veteran Panzer 3 ausf L, it can move while disrupted and doesn't suffer the -1 penalty on dice when disrupted.

TorontoBizz

Have you played this out yet? How did it go? What was your final build?

I've been pretty stumped by this. It's a tough challenge.

Field Marshal PF

The game is this sunday, heres my final build;

1x SS Haupsturmfuhrer (7pts)
2x MG42 Machine-Gun Team (20pts)
7x Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen (35pts)
6x Panzerfaust 30 (24pts)
1x Flammenwerfer 35 (5pts)
3x Fortress Defender (6pts)
1x Mauser Kar 98k (3pts)

lýkos

That looks very good. I wouldn't want to go up against that force on a town map.

Field Marshal PF

Yeah, plus my Dug-In bonus, it'll be tough for him to getthrough, but then againhe'll have an addition 50pts worth, it'll be interesting.

TorontoBizz

Good luck!

Field Marshal PF

Thanks, its time to.....Hold the line!

Field Marshal PF

It was a heated game, but I inevitably lost to this build:

1x Churchill IV
1x Grant I
1x M3 Stuart
1x Crusader II
1x Matilda II
1x Valentine I
1x Humber Scout Car
2x Morris Mk. II Recon Car
2x Defiant Paratroopers

I managed to hold my hold and keep him from winning but getting his units to the other side early on. I lost on turn 18, he decided to just eliminate my forces instead of rushing to the coast.

I lost all my units and the British lost:

1x M3 Stuart
1x Crusader II
1x Matilda II
1x Morris Mk. II Recon Car
1x Defiant Paratroopers

lýkos

Too bad, but 20 turns is indeed a very long time.

TorontoBizz

Well done. Surviving 20 turns is tough. Sounds like it was a fun game.

Field Marshal PF

I can't deny that, it was certainy fun. That Chruchill became the end of me.

Field Marshal PF

I can't deny that, it was certainy fun. That Chruchill became the end of me.