Archive for Axis & Allies ForuMINI Specialised in the World War II Axis & Allies Miniatures and War At Sea Games
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NeuralDream
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[[[ Scharnhorst - beta card DONE by ND ]]]SMS Scharnhorst
Cost: $4.8M
Available: Oct. 1907
| Code: | Armoured Cruiser
11,616 tons
144.6m
22.5 knots
armament: 8 × 21 cm (8.2 in) (2 × 2, 4 × 1)
6 × 15 cm (5.9 in) (6 × 1)
18 × 88 mm/35 cal (3.45 in)(18 × 1)
4 × 450 mm (17.7 in) torpedo tubes
armour: 6-3in belt, 7in barbettes, 7in turret faces, 2.5-1.5in decks
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NeuralDream
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From what I see:
broadside: 6x 8.2 in, 3x6in (main 8/7/6/4, sec. 5/4/3/1)
bow: 2x 8.2, 2x6in (main */5/4/2, sec. */3/2/1)
stern: 2x 8.2, 2x6in (main */5/4/2, sec. */3/2/1)
18x small guns = defensive armament 4 I think
Also, speed 2 and 4 hull points?
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lotharlutjens
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Ah, the Far East Squadron. Now they had a rather epic story.
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swarbs
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Yeah, seems like all of Spee's ships could get 'raider hunter' or 'cruiser hunter' or something else along those lines, though how to keep it from getting repetitive I don't know.
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Brass
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| swarbs wrote: | | Yeah, seems like all of Spee's ships could get 'raider hunter' or 'cruiser hunter' or something else along those lines, though how to keep it from getting repetitive I don't know. |
I'm not sure I see that. Spee's squadron only fought two battles - in the first it clobbered a British force that never had a chance against it and in the second it was clobbered in turn by a British force it never had a chance against. It certainly didn't do any commerce protection and Coronel was such a turkey-shoot I'm not sure it should give some sort of SA against cruisers in general.
OTOH, both armored cruisers were known for their high standard of gunnery, so some sort of long-range attack bonus might make sense.
The light cruisers did some commerce raiding early on but in general didn't do anything particularly notable.
Now the Emden certainly deserves something special. Based on its spending most of its raiding career disguised as a British cruiser, I could see something like Ruse de Guerre- The Emden cannot be fired on by any Allied ship so long as it has not fired a shot itself or She's Not One of Ours! - as long as the Emden has not been fired at, its first shot of the game will take place before any other firing in the turn, regardless of initiative order, and the result will take effect immediately.
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hgraves
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giveing the Scharnhorst and Genasnou a long range fire bonus fits there reputation best in my opinion they where good ships, they just lost out on the stratigic aspect of the war.
on the emden i think the second ability is prolly a tad better. SAs that preclude people from fireing at a known enemy tend to irritate some people.
that being said as worded it would place heavy importance on fireing on emden before she sthoots.
so perhaps her SA should read; Unclear nationality. this ship may not be fired at at range of 3 or more. in addition this vessels first main gun attack of the game gains +1 attack dice.
that way we can tick every body off..  but we dont place a inordinate importance on shooting her first nor her stealthy abilitys. 
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Brass
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| hgraves wrote: | giveing the Scharnhorst and Genasnou a long range fire bonus fits there reputation best in my opinion they where good ships, they just lost out on the stratigic aspect of the war.
on the emden i think the second ability is prolly a tad better. SAs that preclude people from fireing at a known enemy tend to irritate some people.
that being said as worded it would place heavy importance on fireing on emden before she sthoots.
so perhaps her SA should read; Unclear nationality. this ship may not be fired at at range of 3 or more. in addition this vessels first main gun attack of the game gains +1 attack dice.
that way we can tick every body off.. but we dont place a inordinate importance on shooting her first nor her stealthy abilitys. |
My feeling is just the opposite. Emden, as a ship, was pretty much a vanilla German light cruiser. What made her special was her prolonged and extremely successful masquerade as HMS Yarmouth, a ruse de guerre that fooled everyone hunting her until an alert British telegrapher blew the whistle just before his station was destroyed. Once her disguise was revealed, her commerce-raiding career was over.
The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see something along the lines of the Infiltrator SA that Archerfish and I-26 got in Task Force but re-worded slightly so that she couldn't attack, be attacked, or claim an objective on turn 1 if deployed anywhere outside her fleet's side of the map (note: if worded this way the SA would not make the center row a neutral zone). That would allow her to start the game in an annoying, but not necessarily game-breaking, position and wouldn't require any special rules at all after the first turn was over.
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lotharlutjens
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Beta series Scharnhorst
SMS Scharnhorst 4.5 million dollars
Germany Cruiser/Armored Cruiser Oct. 1907
Spd 2
RANGE 0 1 2 3
Mains 8 5/7/5 4/6/4 2/4/2
Sec. 6 4/5/4 3/4/3 1/2/1
AA 2
TT 1
Armor = 5 Vital Armor = 10 Hull = 3
DEF ARMAMENT 4
STALWART
I'm conflicted on SA's for this one, I think that obviously she should get some kind of Offensive SA ( There were many stories of her and her sister's crack gunnery) But also she qualifies for the confused spotting SA because of the closeness of the size of her mains compared to her secondaries. For now I'm giving her Stalwart because of the way she fought against the BC's. I know this will probably be contraversal and I'm not saying this is her final SA, we will have time to change her in the future. But for playtesting purposes, for now, let's go with that.
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lotharlutjens
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Beta (LMS) test series Scharnhorst
SMS Scharnhorst 4.8 million dollars
Germany Cruiser/Armored Cruiser Oct. 1907
Spd 2 Flag 1
Bow Broadside Stern
M Btty */5/4/2 8/7/6/4 */5/4/2
M Btty */4/3/1 6/5/4/2 */4/3/1
AA =2
TT = 1
DA = 4
Armor = 5 Vital Armor = 10 Hull = 3
SUPERB TRAINING : This unit is not affected by the minus one to hit modifier when firing equal size batteries at the same target
STALWART
CRUISER LEADER
I'm conflicted on SA's for this one, I think that obviously she should get some kind of Offensive SA ( There were many stories of her and her sister's crack gunnery) For now I'm giving her Stalwart, Cruiser leader and Superb Training because of the way she fought against the BC's. I know this will probably be contraversal and I'm not saying these are her final SA, we will have time to change her in the future. But for playtesting purposes, for now, let's go with that.
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NeuralDream
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I think that superb training is good enough for her crack gunnery.
I'd phrase it:
SUPERB TRAINING: This unit ignores the effects of CONFUSED SPOTTING.
(...which I assume will be in the rules)
Why STALWART? Did she damage anyone seriously while crippled?
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lotharlutjens
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Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were engaged bt Sturdee's BC's for over 6 hours, and were reported as manning their guns to the very last. And yes, you certainly seem to be able to word the SA better and I have no problem with your suggestion on SUPERB GUNNERY
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NeuralDream
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Ok, I'll make her card now.
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