:: :: FAQ :: Search :: Memberlist :: Join! (free) :: Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in ::
Sea Basing (A6M2N Rufe, etc)
Page 1, 2  Next  
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index -> WAS General Discussion -> WAS Rules Clarification
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Brigman

 
MySingleNationClub
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Likes received: 759

Posts: 42738
FLAGS




Post subject: Sea Basing (A6M2N Rufe, etc)  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
I have a question about Sea Basing.  

"Sea Basing -
This unit can base only in a coast or island sector on your side of the map. Don't place a Rearming counter on this unit during your Air Return step."

So it has to be in a coast or island sector and can't go to the land airbase.

Does this mean, if it chooses not to "place" during air placement, it can still be attacked by an enemy fighter that places into its sector?
_________________

Member, Club IJN - Commander of Soviet Forces, CFS
PostSun Feb 07, 2016 9:59 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Solomiranthius

_
 
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Likes received: 766

Posts: 19325
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
No. You'd still "assign" the Rufe to the land airbase as its mission (just like a carrier aircraft that does not "fly a mission" I believe).

It's weird.
_________________


"You like ships. You don't seem to be lookin' at the destinations. What you care about is the ships, and mine's the nicest." ~ Firefly ~
PostSun Feb 07, 2016 11:09 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
weedsrock2

 
MySpecialCauseClub

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Likes received: 909

Posts: 36854
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:1)  Like this post
Hmm. I don't think there is any real clarification on that. This is what happens when an SA is made that creates a mechanic that is not covered in the Rulebook. You need half a page to cover all the interactions. Since nothing says otherwise, I think the aircraft just sits there "invulnerable." Of course, the downside is the aircraft isn't being used either. But that is no different than an aircraft that is left on the land base.

So it just occurs to me that we have "Sea Basing" that basically mimics the land base rules, and the FAS that mimics a carrier. I think that makes sense when you consider the "sea base" cannot be attacked or destroyed just like the land base, but the FAS can be attacked and destroyed like a carrier.
_________________

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
PostMon Feb 08, 2016 1:50 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Solomiranthius

_
 
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Likes received: 766

Posts: 19325
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
New rulebook page18 part C.
_________________


"You like ships. You don't seem to be lookin' at the destinations. What you care about is the ships, and mine's the nicest." ~ Firefly ~
PostMon Feb 08, 2016 2:59 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
weedsrock2

 
MySpecialCauseClub

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Likes received: 909

Posts: 36854
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Solomiranthius wrote:
New rulebook page18 part C.


I just read that (thanks), but it doesn't cover the situation with Sea Basing. Sea Basing allows the aircraft with that SA to "base" on an island or coastal sector, or on a water sector within 3 rows of the players end of the map if no island or coastal sectors are available. There is nothing anywhere that governs the behavior of aircraft that are left on their "sea base." I admit I have never thought about it before because Sea Based aircraft have always been deployed in my experience. All I am saying is there is nothing specific about Sea Basing in the Rulebook so there is no reason that can't just stay on their "sea base" during a turn.

This is why we came up with the "this unit counts as a carrier" wording for the FAS. Otherwise we would have needed an extra card just to cover all the behaviors we would have needed to specify. But "sea basing" is not a carrier, so the rules on page 18 don't apply.
_________________

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
PostMon Feb 08, 2016 6:09 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Vetnor

 Find a crew. Find a job. Keep on flying.

MySingleNationClub
MySpecialCauseClub

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Likes received: 91

Posts: 2369
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
All aircraft must be placed in any sector or at the LAB during the Air Mission Phase if able to do so including the aircraft on the LAB except aircraft that are rearming.

There's a difference between basing and placing in the air mission phase.

You can place the Rufe in the sector where your FAS is but your opponent can still place a fighter to attack it.

In regards to the FAS IMO the Airstrip SA was the most poorly thought out SA in the game which is a pitty because the FAS is so useful. It isn't KISS.
_________________

Command your fleet to victory.
PostMon Feb 08, 2016 6:28 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Solomiranthius

_
 
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Likes received: 766

Posts: 19325
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
No plane is left where it is based if unused. All are placed as Vetnor said. So a plane on a FAS or with Sea Basing, if not being used this turn is still assigned a "mission" and that mission is to go to your land base and do nothing and be immune from attack*.



*Absent an SA that allows otherwise.
_________________


"You like ships. You don't seem to be lookin' at the destinations. What you care about is the ships, and mine's the nicest." ~ Firefly ~


Last edited by Solomiranthius on Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
PostMon Feb 08, 2016 1:23 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Vetnor

 Find a crew. Find a job. Keep on flying.

MySingleNationClub
MySpecialCauseClub

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Likes received: 91

Posts: 2369
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
weedsrock2 wrote:
Hmm. I don't think there is any real clarification on that.

Because it's not needed.
weedsrock2 wrote:
This is what happens when an SA is made that creates a mechanic that is not covered in the Rulebook.

That's because it didn't create a mechanic.
weedsrock2 wrote:
You need half a page to cover all the interactions.

No you don't unless it's a Forum SA.
weedsrock2 wrote:
Since nothing says otherwise, I think the aircraft just sits there "invulnerable."

No it doesn't.
weedsrock2 wrote:
Of course, the downside is the aircraft isn't being used either.

Yes it is.
weedsrock2 wrote:
But that is no different than an aircraft that is left on the land base.

No it's not, you can't leave an aircraft on the LAB unless its rearming..
weedsrock2 wrote:
So it just occurs to me that we have "Sea Basing" that basically mimics the land base rules,

No it doesn't.
weedsrock2 wrote:
and the FAS that mimics a carrier.

Well 1 out of 10 isn't bad.
weedsrock2 wrote:
I think that makes sense when you consider the "sea base" cannot be attacked or destroyed just like the land base,

That's because it doesn't exist but the LAB can be attacked thats why there are SA's that allow it.
weedsrock2 wrote:
but the FAS can be attacked and destroyed like a carrier.

That's not quite right.
_________________

Command your fleet to victory.
PostMon Feb 08, 2016 3:21 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Shinnentai

 

Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Likes received: 416

Posts: 11688
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Geeze Vetnor - no need to smack Weeds down quite so hard. You get up on the wrong side of bed this morning or something? Rolling Eyes
_________________
www.shinnentai.com


"...we shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our island home, to ride out the storm of war... if necessary for years, if necessary alone."
PostMon Feb 08, 2016 9:49 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
weedsrock2

 
MySpecialCauseClub

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Likes received: 909

Posts: 36854
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Vetnor wrote:
weedsrock2 wrote:
Hmm. I don't think there is any real clarification on that.

Because it's not needed.
weedsrock2 wrote:
This is what happens when an SA is made that creates a mechanic that is not covered in the Rulebook.

That's because it didn't create a mechanic.
weedsrock2 wrote:
You need half a page to cover all the interactions.

No you don't unless it's a Forum SA.
weedsrock2 wrote:
Since nothing says otherwise, I think the aircraft just sits there "invulnerable."

No it doesn't.
weedsrock2 wrote:
Of course, the downside is the aircraft isn't being used either.

Yes it is.
weedsrock2 wrote:
But that is no different than an aircraft that is left on the land base.

No it's not, you can't leave an aircraft on the LAB unless its rearming..
weedsrock2 wrote:
So it just occurs to me that we have "Sea Basing" that basically mimics the land base rules,

No it doesn't.
weedsrock2 wrote:
and the FAS that mimics a carrier.

Well 1 out of 10 isn't bad.
weedsrock2 wrote:
I think that makes sense when you consider the "sea base" cannot be attacked or destroyed just like the land base,

That's because it doesn't exist but the LAB can be attacked thats why there are SA's that allow it.
weedsrock2 wrote:
but the FAS can be attacked and destroyed like a carrier.

That's not quite right.


Wow, I think you have a lot of this wrong. In fact, most all of it.

1. There is absolutely nothing in the Rulebook that gives any guidance at all on what aircraft with Sea Basing must, or must not do in respect to deployment. The Rulebook only mentions the Land Base and Carriers. Sea Basing is neither. However, the rule that once an aircraft is sent to the Land Base all remaining aircraft are also sent to the Land Base does apply. That has to be watched if you want to keep your Sea Based aircraft sitting where they are in their sectors undeployed.

2. You most certainly can leave an aircraft on the Land Base even if it isn't rearming. Only carrier aircraft have to be deployed somewhere. "Aircraft can be placed in any sector on the battle map or on the land airbase."

3. The FAS can be attacked and destroyed like any other card unit. It has an Armor, Vital Armor, and Hull value.

So I will repeat that without an official clarification from WotC there is nothing that forces an aircraft with Sea Basing to be deployed. It can sit there just like aircraft on the land base.
_________________

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 12:13 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
weedsrock2

 
MySpecialCauseClub

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Likes received: 909

Posts: 36854
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Vetnor wrote:
All aircraft must be placed in any sector or at the LAB during the Air Mission Phase if able to do so including the aircraft on the LAB except aircraft that are rearming.

There's a difference between basing and placing in the air mission phase..


Where did you get that quote? I don't see it. The bottom of Page 18 has the quote I gave previously. I think you need to re-read that page (as I did before I commented).

1. Aircraft can be placed in any sector on the battle map or on the land airbase.

2. Once an air mission is assigned to the land airbase, however, all of that player's remaining air missions[\I] are automatically sent to the land airbase.

3. I think the FAS turned out brilliantly after weeks of the team trying out every option we could think of. And the wording we finally used "like a carrier" was hailed as brilliant by most of the team. And it wasn't my idea. Every other option was far worse. You have a right to your opinion on the FAS. And I have a right to disagree.

[quote="Vetnor:1212859"]You can place the Rufe in the sector where your FAS is but your opponent can still place a fighter to attack it.
 

Interesting point. I don't see why anyone would place a Rufe in the FAS sector when setting up, but I guess it is an option. But it isn't on the FAS unless you specifically say you are deploying there. So unless you specifically assigned the Rufe to the FAS (I don't know why anyone would), or you specifically fly it there as an Air Mission, it cannot be attacked.

Vetnor wrote:
In regards to the FAS IMO the Airstrip SA was the most poorly thought out SA in the game which is a pitty because the FAS is so useful. It isn't KISS.


I think the FAS turned out brilliantly after weeks of the team trying out every option we could think of without running afoul of the existing game rules. The wording we finally used "like a carrier" was hailed as brilliant by most of the team. And it wasn't my idea either, although I would be proud if it was.. Every other option was far worse and far less KISS. You have a right to your opinion on the FAS. And I exercise my right to disagree.
_________________

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 12:59 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Solomiranthius

_
 
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Likes received: 766

Posts: 19325
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Vetnor, that was kind of harsh.

Weeds, you are wrong about a Sea Plane being able to "sit" in its sector undeployed.

Page 18 only mentions carriers as an added, but actually unnecessary, clarification. The only wording necessary is:

Quote:
Aircraft can be placed in any sector on the battle map or on the land airbase. Once an air mission is assigned to the land airbase, however, all of that player's remaining air missions are automatically sent to the land airbase.

...

Aircraft that are placed on the land airbase as their air mission do not receive Rearming counters and are available for missions on the next game turn.


You have two choices when it is your turn for placement: battle map sector as an air mission (attack or defense) or land airbase (to avoid a rearming counter). No other choices exist. If you assign an air mission to any sector of the battlemap, that plane is vulnerable because it is flying an air mission on the battlemap.

If you assign an air mission to the land airbase, that plane is invulnerable* but all other planes not yet assigned are then assigned to the land airbase.

There is no third option "not going to do anything with this plane" unless the unit has a rearming counter--then it is effectively out of play. Sea Planes never get this. They will always fly an air mission--either on the battlemap or at the land airbase.
_________________


"You like ships. You don't seem to be lookin' at the destinations. What you care about is the ships, and mine's the nicest." ~ Firefly ~
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 4:16 am
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Vetnor

 Find a crew. Find a job. Keep on flying.

MySingleNationClub
MySpecialCauseClub

Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Likes received: 91

Posts: 2369
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post

_________________

Command your fleet to victory.
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 2:46 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
weedsrock2

 
MySpecialCauseClub

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Likes received: 909

Posts: 36854
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:1)  Like this post
I just don't agree. Maybe I have been playing the game wrong for eight years, but what you guys are saying doesn't make any sense to me.

First, the rulebook says "completed all of their air missions", not aircraft. If I don't fly out an aircraft from the land base I have simply chosen to not give it an Air Mission. Only aircraft on carriers are forced to be assigned an air mission. Not aircraft from the land base.

For example, when I only have a couple of fighters and capital ships remaining in my fleet, and my opponent is the same I just leave my aircraft on the base. There is no point in deploying them. I know the St. Louis club plays the same way. We just say "I'm done with aircraft" or "I'm not using my aircraft this turn" and the opponent can keep deploying aircraft or stop as he wishes.

Edited to add: This is also a very significant tactical move because you can leave your aircraft on the land base and not get a rearming token. If your opponent uses his aircraft he will get rearming tokens the next turn when your aircraft will be clear. If you don't assign your aircraft an air mission then your opponent has to decide what he is going to do tactically at that point.
_________________

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 4:00 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
LcdrSwizzle

_
 Club KM Uber Alles !

MySingleNationClub
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Likes received: 345

Posts: 13698
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Just remember guys, it's all Brigman's fault, he asked the question!

It's amazing reading all this, as no matter what the decision, we have been wrong locally as well. <sigh>
_________________
Großadmiral Swizzle

Browncoat by fandom; Cossack by blood; American by birth; Virginian/Husband/Father by wife; Libertarian by choice; Human by race; Christian by grace.
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 4:58 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Brigman

 
MySingleNationClub
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Likes received: 759

Posts: 42738
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:1)  Like this post
I'm sorry I asked... Laughing
_________________

Member, Club IJN - Commander of Soviet Forces, CFS
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 5:02 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
ticat1

_
 
MySingleNationClub
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Likes received: 818

Posts: 10680
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
weedsrock2 wrote:
I just don't agree. Maybe I have been playing the game wrong for eight years, but what you guys are saying doesn't make any sense to me.

First, the rulebook says "completed all of their air missions", not aircraft. If I don't fly out an aircraft from the land base I have simply chosen to not give it an Air Mission. Only aircraft on carriers are forced to be assigned an air mission. Not aircraft from the land base.

For example, when I only have a couple of fighters and capital ships remaining in my fleet, and my opponent is the same I just leave my aircraft on the base. There is no point in deploying them. I know the St. Louis club plays the same way. We just say "I'm done with aircraft" or "I'm not using my aircraft this turn" and the opponent can keep deploying aircraft or stop as he wishes.

Edited to add: This is also a very significant tactical move because you can leave your aircraft on the land base and not get a rearming token. If your opponent uses his aircraft he will get rearming tokens the next turn when your aircraft will be clear. If you don't assign your aircraft an air mission then your opponent has to decide what he is going to do tactically at that point.


This is how the rule plays out 100% but when you say you're leaving the rest on the airbase, you're technically assigning them to the land air base as their mission
_________________

Qui Tangit Frangitur

To you, from failing hands we throw the torch; be yours to hold it high
           -John McCrae
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 5:05 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Solomiranthius

_
 
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Likes received: 766

Posts: 19325
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
ticat1 wrote:
weedsrock2 wrote:
I just don't agree. Maybe I have been playing the game wrong for eight years, but what you guys are saying doesn't make any sense to me.

First, the rulebook says "completed all of their air missions", not aircraft. If I don't fly out an aircraft from the land base I have simply chosen to not give it an Air Mission. Only aircraft on carriers are forced to be assigned an air mission. Not aircraft from the land base.

For example, when I only have a couple of fighters and capital ships remaining in my fleet, and my opponent is the same I just leave my aircraft on the base. There is no point in deploying them. I know the St. Louis club plays the same way. We just say "I'm done with aircraft" or "I'm not using my aircraft this turn" and the opponent can keep deploying aircraft or stop as he wishes.

Edited to add: This is also a very significant tactical move because you can leave your aircraft on the land base and not get a rearming token. If your opponent uses his aircraft he will get rearming tokens the next turn when your aircraft will be clear. If you don't assign your aircraft an air mission then your opponent has to decide what he is going to do tactically at that point.


This is how the rule plays out 100% but when you say you're leaving the rest on the airbase, you're technically assigning them to the land air base as their mission


Exactly. In practice everyone just says "I'm done" but the effect is every unit is assigned an air mission, just to the air base if not to the map. Any unit assigned to the airbase does not get a rearming counter anyway, so there is no impact.

Otherwise, why even have a rule requiring assignment of units to the land airbase as a mission? If weeds' interpretation was accurate, then the rules would say:

"Aircraft can be placed in any sector on the battle map. Once you choose not to place an Aircraft unit during the Air Mission Phase, all of your remaining Aircraft units that have not been assigned an Air Mission must remain based where they started the turn."

Then it would go on to explain how those carrier aircraft are just cargo and can be lost etc. like on page 49 of the rulebook.

But the rules do not at all contemplate an Aircraft unit remaining unassigned when it can be assigned an air mission--including a "hold-over" one to the land airbase. (A poorly worded descriptor of what happens.)
_________________


"You like ships. You don't seem to be lookin' at the destinations. What you care about is the ships, and mine's the nicest." ~ Firefly ~
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 6:30 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Brigman

 
MySingleNationClub
MyTheaterClub

Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Likes received: 759

Posts: 42738
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
I knew I'd read something somewhere... found it.  This was the 2011 official Rules Clarifications document:

Quote:
Unit Clarifications
A6M2-N "Rufe": These units must observe stacking limits when returning to base (four aircraft squadrons per sector). If there are no coast or island sectors on your side of the map, then this unit uses any sector in your Ship Deployment Area as its base. Rufes must be placed during the Air Mission Phase; they cannot be sent to the land airbase or remain at their base (but can be placed "in the air" above an island base).

_________________

Member, Club IJN - Commander of Soviet Forces, CFS
PostTue Feb 09, 2016 6:36 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
weedsrock2

 
MySpecialCauseClub

Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Likes received: 909

Posts: 36854
FLAGS




Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
ticat1 wrote:
weedsrock2 wrote:
I just don't agree. Maybe I have been playing the game wrong for eight years, but what you guys are saying doesn't make any sense to me.

First, the rulebook says "completed all of their air missions", not aircraft. If I don't fly out an aircraft from the land base I have simply chosen to not give it an Air Mission. Only aircraft on carriers are forced to be assigned an air mission. Not aircraft from the land base.

For example, when I only have a couple of fighters and capital ships remaining in my fleet, and my opponent is the same I just leave my aircraft on the base. There is no point in deploying them. I know the St. Louis club plays the same way. We just say "I'm done with aircraft" or "I'm not using my aircraft this turn" and the opponent can keep deploying aircraft or stop as he wishes.

Edited to add: This is also a very significant tactical move because you can leave your aircraft on the land base and not get a rearming token. If your opponent uses his aircraft he will get rearming tokens the next turn when your aircraft will be clear. If you don't assign your aircraft an air mission then your opponent has to decide what he is going to do tactically at that point.


This is how the rule plays out 100% but when you say you're leaving the rest on the airbase, you're technically assigning them to the land air base as their mission


Okay, that makes sense.  Thank you. And Solo!

PostTue Feb 09, 2016 7:08 pm
Back to top View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1, 2  Next



   Axis & Allies ForuMINI Forum Index » WAS General Discussion -> WAS Rules Clarification

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Editor's Choice
Forumini Generals
All AAM cards
All AAAF Cards
All War At Sea Cards
Forumini Admirals
A20 World Rankings
1. Jcmonson 1066
1. Bean965 1038
3. Vergilius 1024
WAS World Rankings
1. Admiral Wannabee 1240
2. mnnorthstars 1170
3. Azrael 1120
AAM World Rankings
1. Lil Snips 1096
2. Tripwire 1021
3. Kawolski 1010
Friends
Official WoTC site
Richard Baker's new Blog
Le Forum de A&ANM
Riverside Gaming
A&A Underground
Top posters
Brigman 42738
weedsrock2 36854
Flakstruk 35335
RAEVSKI 26750
firesdstny 26685
Asbestos 24554
SWO_Daddy 23223
Solomiranthius 19325
NeuralDream 18234
nrnstraswa 17161
herky80 16512
Lt_V 16301
jfkziegler 15353
Swished3 14762
carrion 14490
LcdrSwizzle 13698
packertim 13611
DaJudge 13360
mnnorthstars 12784
The_lucky_Y 12511
danaussie 12161
Shinnentai 11688
hokiepastor 10867


Forumini Newsletter
Issue #10 (Sep. 2013)
Issue #9 (Sep. 2012)
Issue #8 (Dec. 2011)
Issue #7 (Sep. 2011)
Issue #6 (Apr. 2011)
Issue #5 (Christmas 2010)
Issue #4 (Dec. 2010)
Issue #3 (Jul. 2010)
Issue #2 (Apr. 2010)
Issue #1 (Feb. 2010)


Card File  Gallery  Forum Archive
Theme by: :: Cosmic Distortion ::
Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum