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NeuralDream

 
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EK's Advanced Rules: Class Initiative

SURFACE MOVEMENT PHASE
Units have their movement split into two steps: first they move in the General Movement step, and later in a step according to their speed class. Note that units with Speed 1 (e.g. submarines, most crippled units, and units that fail their Slow roll) may only move in the General Movement step.
Step 1: General Movement
The player with lower initiative moves each of his surface units up to one sector, regardless of speed. The player with higher initiative then does the same. From this point on, all units are considered to have spent one movement point, regardless of whether they moved or not.
Step 2: Slow Movement
The player with lower initiative may spend the remaining movement point(s) of each of his units with the Slow SA, as well as Auxiliary units. The player with higher initiative then does the same.
Step 3: Carrier Movement
The player with lower initiative may spend the remaining movement point(s) of each of his Carriers. The player with higher initiative then does the same.
Step 4: Battleship Movement
The player with lower initiative may spend the remaining movement point(s) of each of his Battleships. The player with higher initiative then does the same.
Step 5: Cruiser Movement
The player with lower initiative may spend the remaining movement point(s) of each of his Cruisers. The player with higher initiative then does the same.
Step 6: Destroyer Movement
The player with lower initiative may spend the remaining movement point(s) of each of his Destroyers. The player with higher initiative then does the same.
Step 7: Torpedo Boat Movement
The player with lower initiative may spend the remaining movement point(s) of each of his Torpedo Boats. The player with higher initiative then does the same.



EK's Advanced Rules: Hidden Submarines

DEPLOYMENT PHASE
-Submarines deploy in the same sectors as ships; they begin the game with 4 Hidden Counters each.
SURFACE MOVEMENT PHASE
-Submarines do not move during the movement phase.
-Ships with an ASW attack value may perform a search against a local hidden submarine. Each search counts as having moved one sector, and can be performed at any point during the movement. To perform a search, the ship rolls an ASW attack: if it scores at least as many successes as the submarine has Hidden Counters, the submarine becomes revealed. Otherwise, the search has no effect.
AIR ATTACK PHASE
-Aircraft with an ASW attack value may attack hidden submarines. However, no damage is dealt: instead, for each success rolled, one Hidden Counter is removed and the submarine may move one sector. The submarine may not move more sectors than it had Hidden Counters, even if more successes were rolled.
SURFACE ATTACK PHASE
-Submarines with Hidden Counters may not be attacked by surface ships.
-Submarines without Hidden Counters may be attacked normally.
SUBMARINE ATTACK PHASE
-Submarines without Hidden Counters may not attack; instead, they may move one sector or receive one Hidden Counter.
-Submarines with one or more Hidden Counters may reveal themselves and immediately make a torpedo attack. Alternatively, they may instead move one sector or receive an additional Hidden Counter.
REVEALING SUBMARINES
-When a submarine is revealed, its owner removes all Hidden Counter. For each counter removed in this way, it may move one sector. A submarine may not move through or into a sector containing enemy ships with an ASW attack value.
SPECIAL ABILITIES
-Sub Hunter (USS Samuel B. Roberts, Type 13 Subchaser...): During the surface movement phase, this unit may perform one free ASW search.
-Run Silent (HMS Truculent): When this unit is the target of an ASW search, you may discard one of its Hidden counters. If you do, the searching unit receives a -1 to each attack die. The required number of successes is not changed.
NIGHT-FIGHTING
-During night operations, submarines receive one Hidden Counter immediately after performing an attack.
NOTES AND CLARIFICATIONS
-Depending on its speed, a ship may perform more than one ASW search. For example, a PT Boat could make three searches in the same sector, or move one sector and make two searches. Movement and search can be made in any order.
-Air searches will usually just narrow down the location of the submarine, but it is entirely possible for it to become revealed in this manner.
-A sub may be revealed in a sector containing an enemy destroyer, but only as long as the sector was also its last known position.
-Stacking rules still apply to hidden submarines.
-Submarine harassment rules should not be used in conjuction with these.
-The Sub-Hunter SA is essentially unchanged, and only differs in that the extra movement point may only be used to perform an ASW search.


ND's Deathmatch Rules



FAQ:
* Are objectives ever removed from the game?
- No, never. You keep getting 3 pts each turn from each objective you control.
* Do I need to keep a ship next to an objective to gain pts?
- No, you have control of an objective until you lose it.
* Can I deploy a USS Laffey or a Hellcat twice?
- No, you cannot deploy any unit more than once in a game.
* Who declares first what he buys in each turn?
- For fairness, use the following rule:
"The one who won the initiative declares whether and what he'll buy this turn."
* Do you begin with control of the island on your side of the map?
- Yes, you do.
* Do units with "Infiltrate" begin at your side's starting point or can they deploy anywhere?
- Anywhere.
* Do units with "turn 1" abilities get to use them only on the first turn of the game or the first turn they are in play? (e.g. Zeke, Koln, ...)
- The first turn they appear in the game.

The following map is for online matches:



Warspite's WAS corrections & Allied equipment

This is version 2.2 of my 'Warspite' recommended errata and corrections for War at Sea ship and aircraft cards:

Submarine Ambra - torpedoed and sank the 6,000 ton AA cruiser HMS Bonaventure. Delete the 'destroyer killer' SA and substitute cruiser killer at same factor.
Scharnhorst - had an effective anti-torpedo defence which Bismarck's was partly based upon. Allow the -1 torpedo hit SA as in Bismarck.
Scharnhorst - shares the record for longest range hit in WW2 with HMS Warspite. If two Scharnhorsts are in play (as Scharnhorst and Gneisenau) both get: 'shoots at range 5 using range 3 or 4 dice' SA like Iowa. Does not apply to single vessels.
HMS Hood - can only be vitalled at range 3 and above. Ignores enemy 'four sixes' rolls at closer ranges. Ignore hits from cruisers and smaller. For this purpose Graf Spee and Scheer are NOT cruisers so Hood is vulnerable.
Devastator - was used extensively as a bomber in the opening months of 1942. Once per game may substitute a 7-dice bomb run for a torpedo attack.
Swordfish - German big ships had a great deal of trouble shooting at Swordfish as these aeroplanes attacked slower than the big ships' fire control computers allowed for. No Swordfish were shot down by Bismarck or driven off. German big ships lose 2 dice AA against Swordfish only. Does not apply to Karl Galster or smaller.
Zero/Zeke - early war Japanese pilots were of high quality and got their best out of this type. In 1942 battles ONLY the Zero/Zeke gets an extra dice fighting against any FIGHTER type.
USS Baltimore - there is no evidence of enhanced anti-torpedo qualities in this class. When USS Canberra of this class was struck by an air-dropped Japanese torpedo she was crippled. Remove the -1 torpedo hit SA.
Kondor - was available much earlier than the card suggests but its bombing was less effective. Lose one dice bombing in 1940 and 1941. Stand-off glider bomb is not available on the Kondor until the last month of 1943. Treat as '1944'.
Tirpitz - should have torpedoes. Give it torpedoes 2/1/0 as Karlsruhe. No torpedoes on Bismarck.
U-66 - speed 1. Speed 2 is a noted error.
British cruisers get secondaries - HMS Jamaica gets secondaries 4/4/3. This should also be applied to HMS Ajax, HMS Exeter, and HMAS Sydney. HMAS Canberra gets secondaries at 2/2/1. For HMS Exeter at Battle of the River Plate use 2/2/1 as Canberra.

*************************************************

Allies and Lend-Lease equipment:

Despite the national flags on the WAS cards many ships or aircraft of one nation were actually used by another. This is an attempt to codify those acceptable uses for strictly historical games. All applicable points values [e.g. 7pts per Stuka] must still be paid.

U-Boats - U-boats actively operated in the Mediterranean in support of the Italian navy sinking HMS Ark Royal and Barham among others. Up to one U-boat may be used per Italian submarine in play. There is an upper limit of up to two U-boats in a 100 point game and up to three U-boats maximum in all higher points value games.
You will note that this means in a 100 point game the Italian player must chose either Stukas OR U-boats. Italians can only mix Stukas and U-boats at 200 points or higher. An 'Italian' player cannot use Kondors in support of U-boats. Kondors were not actively deployed in the Mediterranean.
HMAS Canberra - although 'Australian' this is a model of the Royal Navy's 'County Class' cruiser and may be operated in numbers by the RN to represent Norfolk, Suffolk, Dorsetshire, etc. The Sydney may also operate with RN forces as an RN vessel. Card date should read as '1939' on both. Australian vessels also operated alongside US vessels so Canberra and Sydney types may also be operated by a US player as if US vessels.
PT boats: were operated by the Royal Navy under Lend-Lease in addition to the RN's (own basically similar) MTBs. Up to four PT boats may be fielded by an R.N. player.
The R.N. also operated Wildcats as 'Grumman Martlets'. The R.N. may use up to one Wildcat in a 1941 game and up to two in a 1942 or later game.
[b]Catalinas:
were operated by the Royal Air Force's Coastal Command. Britain was the first nation to use this type in combat. It was a Catalina which located the Bismarck. RAF Catalinas do not carry out torpedo attacks or bomb attacks. Their primary role was ASW and recon.


Weedsrock2's (Iowa Shipbuilding & Drydock Co.) Terrain Rules

These rules replace step 2 of the 'Setting Up' rules on page 4 of the Advances Rules booklet.

Flip a coin to determine who sets up first (Step 3 in 'Setting Up')

- Each player should select two island terrain cards and one shoal card. A two-piece island will count as the two island cards if selected. The open ocean side of the battle map should be used.

- The player that lost the coin flip places the first terrain piece. Then the next player places one terrain piece. Continue this process alternating terrain placement until all pieces have been placed. If a player has a two-piece island he must place both pieces at the same time. The next player can then place two pieces of terrain.

The following restrictions apply to placing terrain:

- Terrain can be placed anywhere except in the ship deployment areas, the airbase sector, or on a sector containing an objective marker.
- Only one objective marker sector can have an island terrain card in a sector that is adjacent to an objective.
- Island terrain cannot be placed in a sector adjacent to another island terrain sector (unless it is the two cards of a two-piece island).
- Shoals can be adjacent to island terrain.
- Terrain cannot be placed in a way that prevents ships in the Ship deployment area from reaching an objective in five sector moves.

Continue to Step 4 in the 'Setting Up' rules on page 4 of the Advanced Rules booklet.
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Last edited by NeuralDream on Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:37 am; edited 5 times in total
PostSun Dec 21, 2008 3:51 am
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chesty

 
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This is nice!  Thanks for posting your work for us to use.

Submarine Ambra - torpedoed and sank the 6,000 ton AA cruiser HMS Bonaventure. Delete the 'destroyer killer' SA and substitute cruiser killer at same factor.

Cruiser Killer, like Cruiser Hunter, is a gunnery SA.  I think I know what you mean, though.  I've added Vindictive Fire to the list of proposed new special abilities.  Please forgive my insolence, honored elder player!


Last edited by chesty on Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
PostMon Feb 16, 2009 8:36 pm
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towcritter1966

 

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Some of the rules and clarifications need to be reviewed and corrected as many of these rules were for Set I and since then Set II has been relieased and it included Italian air-power, etc.
PostTue Mar 10, 2009 12:34 pm
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NeuralDream

 
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towcritter1966 wrote:
Some of the rules and clarifications need to be reviewed and corrected as many of these rules were for Set I and since then Set II has been relieased and it included Italian air-power, etc.

If you point out the changes that are needed, one of the mods will edit the text Smile.
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PostTue Mar 10, 2009 12:42 pm
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towcritter1966

 

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I am not 100% sure of what needs to be changed just suggest some be reviewed, such as:

Allies and Lend-Lease  equipment lists Stuka for Italy but Italy now has the Pichiatelly so is that redundant?  Also the R.N. has HMS Fencer so is the St. Lo lend-lease redundant?  At the end of Lend-Lease there is a statement of "deliberate restrictions due to lack of German and Italian fighters".  This has changed since Set II release so just think it should be reviewed and possibly reworded.
PostTue Mar 10, 2009 3:31 pm
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NeuralDream

 
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Many thanks for pointing these out Smile. One of the mods will revise the text.
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PostTue Mar 10, 2009 5:38 pm
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SJG Gamer

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Post subject: House rules we use in Jacksonville Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Hello everyone,
I have been playing War At Sea twice a week for most of April. Cool  
My friends and I have made a few changes to entice others to play and to make it more enjoyable for all of us. Idea
We use the movement rules that move ships by type:  First Speed-One-Ships, then CVs, BBs, CAs & CLs, DDs, etc.  The player who lost innitiative moves his ships of each type first.  
Also, we changed the effect of rolling the vital armor on a ship.  Instead of automaticly destroying the unit, now it takes two hits.  This reduces the effect of an excessively lucky roll.  It still allows destroyers to be demolished with one shot.
When ships move, they cannot move backward, and each move gets one turn.  A ship with speed 2 cam move one hex, and make two turns.
The game is still fun and these changes make it even better. Cool
What do other people do?
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Last edited by SJG Gamer on Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
PostSun May 03, 2009 11:11 pm
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NeuralDream

 
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SJG Gamer, I think you've missed our contest for houserules: http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about6974.html .  The most popular of them will be added here too.
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PostSun May 03, 2009 11:17 pm
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weedsrock2

 
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SJG Gamer wrote:
Finally, we have those ships that have torpedoes only able to fire them after gunfire.  Otherwise a ship can run in from out of a BBs range to next to it with the BB or CA for that matter, being able to fire at it as it makes its torpedo range.  It is rough for the DDs, but clever use of smoke-screens, etc can help.
What do other people do?


Wow! If you only knew!

The original rules had surface torpedoes firing in the 'torpedo attack phase' along with submarines. It is still written that way in the original rulebook. There was a tremendous amount of screaming right after the game came out that destroyers were almost worthless and the IJN had virtually no chance of winning the game. One of the most asked-for fixes was to allow surface ships to fire torpedoes during the surface gunnery phase. In fact, it was demanded or the game would die in many peoples minds.

Personally, I was actually against changing the surface torpedo rules initially, but after it was done I quickly saw the wisdom in it. Torpedo attacks were the core surface attack doctrine of the IJN even ahead of gunnery. With the old rules IJN destroyers and light cruisers (or any destroyers or cruisers) never got a chance to use them. The game had devolved into battleships and subs.

You are certainly free to play the game any way that makes you guys happy. But that one is the 'hot button of all time.' Wink From the rule changes you mention my guess is you are more into 'historical' play so you don't have to worry about no restrictions 'cheese fleets?'
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PostMon May 04, 2009 4:02 am
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SJG Gamer

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I see your point about DDs & TT carrying cruisers getting pulverized when they get close.  That is a good reason to have torpedoes fire during the gunnery phase.
I am gonna experiment.  I have many torpedo counters from other games.  I will have the ships firing torpedoes fire them during the ship gunnery phase.  The firing ship will secretly designate the target of the torpedoes and place a torpedo counter next to the firing ship.  During the movement phase of the next turn, the target gets attacked by the torpedoes.  If the target ship moves away, then the distance at the end of the movement phase is used to determine howmany torpedoes attack.  If the ship moves closer, then its gonna get hit by many torpedoes!  This will probably add in a little more time, but I think its worth a try.
I will try this out this Saturday and let everyone know how it goes.  Cool

Now as to my being a historical player, last Saturday I played a game where I used two of my Big Five Latice-masted BBs.
(USS Colorado-type 1941,2 modernization: Same AA guns as USS Yorktown, so AA=7)  
On my side a friend played the Bismark & Tirpitz.  We played against a 220 point British fleet... Shocked

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Last edited by SJG Gamer on Tue May 05, 2009 12:10 am; edited 1 time in total
PostMon May 04, 2009 10:38 pm
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weedsrock2

 
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Have you tried Victory at Sea? It has a lot of the game elements you seem to be looking for. It is more complex and takes more time to play, but it is no SeeKrieg either.
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PostMon May 04, 2009 11:02 pm
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SJG Gamer

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I have played Victory At Sea.  I did not like it very much.  It is too complex and poorly put together.  I like War@Sea and merely want to make a small improvement in the way torpedoes are used.   Rolling Eyes
If I were to play a more complex system, I would play GQ2 or GQ3.  These games are better than V@S in my opinion.  I have played all four of these.  My favorite is War At Sea, with a few minor changes. Cool
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Darn the Torpedoes; full speed ahead!
Victory is blasting hostile ships out of the water before they blast you out of the water...
PostTue May 05, 2009 12:08 am
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SJG Gamer

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Hello everyone,
Today I played War @ Sea two times.  The first battle, the 3 Colorado class BBs, USS SanFrancisco and 4 DDs  fought against a German force.  We used the regular Torpedo rules with torpedoes being fired (and hitting) during the surface gunfire phase.  The complex system I was gonna experiment with looked goofy what I was gonna try it.  So it is abandoned.  The Game's way of dealing with torpedoes is best.   Cool
The only house rules we use is the movement system that moves by ship types, and having ships that get "vitaled" take two hull hits instead.
The second game had a funny end.  I had an intact IJN Moyoko vs an Atlanta at range zero.  I fired all 3 LL torpedoes, main guns, and secondaries.  All missed!! Shocked
He scored a hit with Atlanta's guns, then hit with his dinky torpedo.  The Moyoko was sunk and he won the game.  I still am laughing about it because it was a funny rarity. Laughing
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PostSun May 10, 2009 1:17 am
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Yeah, that is strange.  I would normally like my odds with Myoko against Atlanta in surface combat.
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I am considering a little tweak to torpedo rules myself:

Fire the torpedoes during surface attack, but applying damage only AFTER Sub phase

Too often I had a DD killed by a luck Torpedo hit from a Cruiser or enemy DD and this loosing the ASW threat against enemy units.

reasoning: Torpedos need some time to cross the distance Wink

not sure if this is too complicated compared for teh gain.
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PostFri May 29, 2009 1:01 pm
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jim.agee

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SJG Gamer wrote:
I have played Victory At Sea.  I did not like it very much.  It is too complex and poorly put together.  I like War@Sea and merely want to make a small improvement in the way torpedoes are used.   Rolling Eyes
If I were to play a more complex system, I would play GQ2 or GQ3.  These games are better than V@S in my opinion.  I have played all four of these.  My favorite is War At Sea, with a few minor changes. Cool


For me, VaS allows for a bit more complication (arcs of fire, maneuver, range bands, etc) than WaS, but is much quicker and easier then GQ or Command at Sea (CaS). While GQ and CaS are much, much better systems then VaS, VaS is easier to find results of fire and with less tables then the average "better" system.

Yes, I like VaS, but it's not the "end all, be all" by any means. It's not even that great, in the big scheme of games. It simply gives me a faster means of naval gaming, with a flavor missing from WaS. Now, if only I could find my copy of Task Force's "Battlewagon." Or, if Mongoose Press would only fix the problems with the system, issue a V2.0 rulebook and actually give some support to the game (and I don't mean Age of Dreadnoughts, or articles in Signals and Portents)... My many 1/2400 boats are ready to fight more sea battles.

Just my .02 cents. Thank you.
R, Jim
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PostSat May 30, 2009 12:48 am
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Definitely not the end all, be all.

We should play this sometime soon.
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PostSat May 30, 2009 5:26 am
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Hello, Im new on the boards, one of my friends showed me this site.

Looking at the house rules some look like they are fun.  I notice that the optional rule for the swordfish is kinda iffy.  My gaming group uses a rule for the swordfish to make them for effective for their price by also making it kinda realistic.

We add this SA to the Swordfish

"Skipping the Waves" - If an AA attack hits this unit from a ship, roll a die, on 4 or higher that attack misses.

It makes it semi-realistic because the reason why they were hard to hit was the fact they could for the most part fly right at the surface of the water and at the speeds they fly, they are really maneuverable.
PostWed May 05, 2010 10:02 pm
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Sounds like a good suggestion, Fattymac.

welcome to the forum!
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And it makes its 10 points worth something...


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