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Milan and "Chase"
 
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LcdrSwizzle

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Post subject: Milan and "Chase"  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
Yesterday, we had a battle with French units on both sides. The interesting part of the battle came when 2 opposing Milans were 4 sectors apart from each other at the end of the turn, and both wanted to advance toward the other.

How does that work? Because if one moves, it is now 3 sectors away from the other, and does that negate the other's "Chase"?

It was an interesting discussion and here we are asking for help!

Chase: At the end of the Sea Movement phase, if there are no enemy ships within range 3 of this unit, you may move this unit one sector toward the nearest enemy ship.
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PostSun Feb 07, 2016 7:42 pm
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I'd say the player that moved first gets to do it, and the second doesn't.
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PostSun Feb 07, 2016 7:57 pm
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ditto.  Similar things apply when opposing DD's Subhunt into the same middle sector because both teams have a sub there.  

TECHNICALLY, the player who lost init goes first in all phases of the game.  In the Subhunt example, both units can still subhunt, but the 2nd player may no longer want to.  

In this case, I agree with SWO, the player that lost init would have the opportunity to CHASE, but the 2nd player would not if the first player took the opportunity.
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PostSun Feb 07, 2016 8:57 pm
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I think they can both move the extra sector. It says "at the end of the Sea Movement phase". The Sea Movement phase is simultaneous for one thing. Plus at the end of the phase (before either one "chases") they are both more than 3 sectors apart. I don't think who won initiative factors into this SA the way it is written.
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PostSun Feb 07, 2016 9:16 pm
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weedsrock2 wrote:
I think they can both move the extra sector. It says "at the end of the Sea Movement phase". The Sea Movement phase is simultaneous for one thing. Plus at the end of the phase (before either one "chases") they are both more than 3 sectors apart. I don't think who won initiative factors into this SA the way it is written.


The challenge is that while movement is "executed" in sequence, it is simultaneous for shooting purposes.

If only one gets to do it, it seems that winning initiative means you can't move your Milan if your opponent's Milan moves.

If both get to do it, one still must move first, then the other.

It does "seem" that both are more than 3 sectors apart at the "end" of the movement phase, which is also before the "chase" SA is used. Thus, we thought both would get to move. We moved the "initiative loser" first, then the "initiative winner".

Does that sound right?
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PostTue Feb 09, 2016 7:31 pm
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I agree with Weeds' interpretation:  it is a simultaneous action.  The second player may CHOOSE not to do so (the benefit of winning initiative), but he or she does have the OPPORTUNITY to Chase.
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PostTue Feb 09, 2016 9:06 pm
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I think the key words here are  MAY MOVE;
  As the SA says all this takes place at the end of all movement;
True one side may not want to move if the other does;; so how you decide that should be by;; Gentleman's agreement, I don't think Initiative has anything to do with it, unless you agreed on it or just roll a die.

Units with Chase;; V Olga--Milan--Jamaica--Cat Hood
Seems its mostly an Allied SA
PostFri Feb 12, 2016 7:37 am
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firesdstny wrote:
ditto.  Similar things apply when opposing DD's Subhunt into the same middle sector because both teams have a sub there.  

TECHNICALLY, the player who lost init goes first in all phases of the game.  In the Subhunt example, both units can still subhunt, but the 2nd player may no longer want to.  

In this case, I agree with SWO, the player that lost init would have the opportunity to CHASE, but the 2nd player would not if the first player took the opportunity.


At first thought, I agreed with Fires and SWO.

The game identifies when one player has to take an action first, and some actions taken first will defeat actions of other players.

However, upon consideration, there is probably a stronger argument the other way. The Sea Movement Phase has two Steps--first player moves, then second player moves. After those two Steps are complete, it is "the end of the Sea Movement Phase" that then allows other SAs to activate. It is at that time--after both players have moved--that you analyze whether the conditions are met for the SAs of units contemplating the end of the phase. Under this view, both sides are meeting those conditions. Then, initiative controls again for who gets to (has to) act first for using the SA--essentially it becomes Mini-End-of-Sea-Movement-Phase-Steps to resolve the order of movement.

Otherwise, under the view that one player's Chase can defeat another's, you would have two distinct "end of the Sea Movement Phases" for both players. For the first player it would be after both "initial" Steps are finished. For the second player, it would be after both "initial" Steps are finished AND the first player's "secondary" Step is completed. That seems at odds with the simultaneous Phase bit.

After all, the "beginning" of the Sea Movement Phase for the second player is the true beginning of the Sea Movement Phase, not the end of the first player's "initial" Sea Movement Step. That's the simultaneous bit--kind of a "time freeze" for evaluating conditions. Just like in the Surface Attack Phase. There are some limited exceptions (like Smoke Screen, Disguise, etc.) but those are express exceptions.

I am going to have to agree that both players can use Chase absent a clarification otherwise, since when the conditions activating the SA are satisfied after both players have taken their initial Movement Steps, but before either player moves their units.
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PostFri Feb 12, 2016 3:57 pm
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I think people are trying to over think this.

At the end of the Sea Movement Phase both players would have the option to Chase. The easiest way is for both players to announce their intention to Chase or not and each player could change his mind if he so wished. The move could be made simultaneous(literally).  

It's a "Gentleman's Agreement".


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