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hokiepastor

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Post subject: Beaufort  Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
So I'm playing against a Beaufort/Beaufighter tandem for the first time, and I have an SA question:

In an attack involving both a Beaufort and a Beaufighter, does Synchronized Attack still kick in, even if the strafing (Beau)fighter is aborted?
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PostSat Jul 30, 2016 11:04 pm
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Solomiranthius

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Good question. I'm not sure?
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PostSun Jul 31, 2016 12:08 am
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hokiepastor

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My gut says that the Beaufort is no longer present during the Air Attack phase (if it is aborted in the Air Defense phase), but I wanted to get other opinions.
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PostSun Jul 31, 2016 12:24 am
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RAEVSKI

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I believe that the Beaufighter drew the flak, and was aborted then the Beaufort lined up  to deliver the attack.
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PostSun Jul 31, 2016 8:00 pm
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hokiepastor

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In our game, a fighter aborted the Beaufort during the air defense phase. My question is, since it is aborted prior to the air attack phase, does the Beaufort benefit from the SA? Or are the conditions of the SA no longer met?
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PostSun Jul 31, 2016 8:23 pm
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firesdstny

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For Beaufort
Synchronized Attack wrote:

While this unit is in the same sector as friendly strafing Fighter, it rolls one extra attack die when making Bomb attacks.


For Beaufighter Mk21
Draw the Flak wrote:

When you declare this unit is strafing, local enemy ships must attack this unit during the Air Defense phase if able.


If the Beaufighter was strafing and was aborted, it was still strafing for its attack.  Therefore I think the Beaufort would get the benefit of Synchronized Attack.  That is sort of the point.  The fighter is drawing the fire to make it easier for the PB to get through.
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PostSun Jul 31, 2016 10:26 pm
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hokiepastor

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Post subject: Reply with quote   (Liked by:0)  Like this post
firesdstny wrote:
For Beaufort
Synchronized Attack wrote:

While this unit is in the same sector as friendly strafing Fighter, it rolls one extra attack die when making Bomb attacks.


For Beaufighter Mk21
Draw the Flak wrote:

When you declare this unit is strafing, local enemy ships must attack this unit during the Air Defense phase if able.


If the Beaufighter was strafing and was aborted, it was still strafing for its attack.  Therefore I think the Beaufort would get the benefit of Synchronized Attack.  That is sort of the point.  The fighter is drawing the fire to make it easier for the PB to get through.


I'm ok with that, but what if a fighter aborted the strafer before a ship did? Just trying to see all the interactions of two units obviously designed to go together, but which I've never played with/against in combination.

And I guess the basic question is, is an aborted plane still in sector for the air attack step, since it was aborted in air defense step?
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PostMon Aug 01, 2016 1:06 am
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P. 45 of the rule book under strafing states that the strafing mission ends with the air return phase.  So I'd say that yes, even if aborted it will trigger Synchronized Attack

*Edited*
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Last edited by ticat1 on Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total
PostMon Aug 01, 2016 1:19 am
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Thanks all!
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PostMon Aug 01, 2016 2:44 am
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firesdstny

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Agreed.  It's the same basic idea as a fighter getting aborted still giving the benefit of Escort.  Aborted or not, the fighter is still there.
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PostMon Aug 01, 2016 4:22 am
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hokiepastor

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firesdstny wrote:
Agreed.  It's the same basic idea as a fighter getting aborted still giving the benefit of Escort.  Aborted or not, the fighter is still there.


Ok I figured, though the comparison is a little different. Escort's benefit is still in the air defense phase. Synchronized Attack triggers in a separate phase than the abort. But no worries!
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I can see it argued either way, but I think I'd side with the aborted Beaufighter not counting towards activating the Beaufort's SA :

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(Pg 34 2010 rulebook) "Aborted aircraft have no further effect for the rest of the turn"
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No further effect is a pretty broad term here, and I think that the Beaufighter's presense activating the Beaufort's SA would fall under it.

Thematically, the Beaufighters have been scattered by AA before they could deliver the co-ordinated attack.
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PostMon Aug 01, 2016 1:20 pm
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Solomiranthius

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So would aborting an escort fighter first stop escort from working?
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PostTue Aug 02, 2016 2:42 am
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Solomiranthius wrote:
So would aborting an escort fighter first stop escort from working?


Wouldn't matter because that would take effect on the Air Attack step when Escort has already done it's job.  

By rights, yes it does lose Escort because aborted planes can't use their SAs.
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PostTue Aug 02, 2016 5:14 am
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Shinnentai

 

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Yeah - Hokie already said that in the post above mine.
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PostWed Aug 03, 2016 9:03 pm
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Yeah. Brain lapse there. I was reading the "no further effect" too literally and ignoring the simultaneous nature of everything.

Although, that would be an interesting house rule -- if you abort the escorting fighter first, then during that same Antiair step, escort no longer functions. Smile Encourage more fighter-on-fighter action.
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PostWed Aug 03, 2016 9:52 pm
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Shinnentai wrote:
I can see it argued either way, but I think I'd side with the aborted Beaufighter not counting towards activating the Beaufort's SA :

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Pg 34 2010 rulebook) "Aborted aircraft have no further effect for the rest of the turn"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No further effect is a pretty broad term here, and I think that the Beaufighter's presense activating the Beaufort's SA would fall under it.

Thematically, the Beaufighters have been scattered by AA before they could deliver the co-ordinated attack.


This makes sense, because the "air attack phase" is after the "air defense phase". Just like when an airplane damages a ship with extended range, that ship doesn't start the "surface attack phase" with ER anymore, even tho it had it at the start of the turn!
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PostWed Aug 24, 2016 12:33 am
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Don't the rules on page 34 say; Aircraft do not lose any ability to use their AA attack or SA abilities even if aborted until the end of that phase;;
   Meaning not until the Air Attack phase; do aborted aircraft essentially become non existent, but must remain on the playing field until the Return Phase.
PostSun Aug 28, 2016 2:48 am
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According to the rulebook, aborted planes in the air defense phase don't factor in to the air attack phase.  You can't Shadow with an aborted Emily, for instance.
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PostMon Oct 03, 2016 3:49 pm
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mnnorthstars wrote:
According to the rulebook, aborted planes in the air defense phase don't factor in to the air attack phase.  You can't Shadow with an aborted Emily, for instance.


MNN is correct. Remember that Air defense and Air attack are separate phases.

During the Air Defense phase, all airplane SA's are still "available" because all action in that phase is treated as if "simultaneous".

However, any planes that are "not there" (aborted or destroyed) for the Air Attack phase when it starts, have no impact on that phase at all.


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